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Thread started 02 Dec 2009 (Wednesday) 17:32
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State High School Football

 
MT
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Dec 06, 2009 18:05 as a reply to  @ post 9147010 |  #46

Because I missed this part...

Any way you look at it the company or person who has the exclusive right to the event can restrict it any way they see fit! They paid for that right in most cases so can make the rules, it's not a public event, it's not on public property. They can make it so no fans have cameras, approved media has to shoot from certain areas while their photog has special rights, they can not allow certain media in for whatever reason they want, etc. They just cant tell the approved media how to run their business like IL tried to do and got shot down.

There are more interest than just the photography company. You are pretty much exhibit #1 for my

Particularly in high school sports, it's far too easy to forget that the primary function of these events is not profit for photographers.

In the end analysis, these events are not organized for the express purpose of making a profit from images taken - that's just one portion of it.




  
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MT
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Dec 06, 2009 18:22 |  #47

canonnoob wrote in post #9147039 (external link)
Alright you two.... lol

MT- I will say this... most schools in MO do NOT have a photo journalsim course. Trust me. Most schools offer photo classes that specialize in Black and White film photography. I have yet come across a school that has a dedicated photo journalism/ digital photography class. Majority are film based. Heck they even make pin hole cameras...

The Majority of journalism classes in High schools are dealing with writing, not photography...

Hey, trust me. I'm MO as well - and I think it's fair to say that most schools do not have a journalism course here either. The ones that do, however probably incorporate the photo portion into the general journalism - way back when that is how I experienced it. And most of the small papers I see meld the sports editor/writer/photogra​pher into one job (and he cleans up at night) - so preparation for the real world, eh?

The sports board is big for all of us - those that shoot from a journalism perspective are obviously going to have different opinions than those shoot from a commercial perspective.

I respect those shooting these events (although don't tell ric that). Commercial shooters should recognize that others have a legitimate interest as well - students in particular. I'm sure that photogliff negotiated the most restrictive agreement they could (it is business after all), without being punitive to the rest of those just trying to do their job.




  
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MJPhotos24
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Dec 06, 2009 19:05 as a reply to  @ post 9147010 |  #48

Oh really? Photography is a essential part of journalism - pick up any paper or magazine. Way back when I was in school it was well known, heck I even went to two week summer seminars at j-school specifically for photojournalism.

Photos and the article are both big parts of journalism, however, by definition journalism is writing and photojournalism is photography - they're separate - though it is strange because many papers are giving writers cameras and sending them out to do both so my guess is more courses would be turned towards both. The writers I know can not take great photos and never took photojournalism classes in college or high school, it was all based on writing. Now if you actually read what I said I asked if anywhere has photojournalism as a class in high school, I'd like to actually know. Around here they do not but think it'd be good in bigger areas, city schools, etc. Again, HIGH SCHOOLS, we're not talking colleges.


Thirty years ago, it was part of the journalism class. But instead of photoshop, we learned actual darkroom work. You know developing and printing images. In schools that do school papers it's still taught as journalism not art.

Um, I started off with film, have developed, didn't switch to digital until a couple years after everyone else did so not sure if you're trying to throw an insult there like I'm one of the digital age newbs, ha. Say it again, thirty years ago was a lot different. What I meant was you're doing set up stuff like art and not much photojournalism when it comes to HIGH SCHOOL photography classes. I'm sure some do, and again - if anyone has a link that'd be cool to check out what a high school class does...but it don't happen around here!

Pick any school with a journalism department. My favorite http://www.journalism.​missouri.edu/ (external link) (go tigers)

Ummm, that's a college and exactly my point so don't get why you posted it?? I said colleges have it and there's a lot of great college programs out there that cover all aspects.

"No" would have been far more succinct and accurate.

Find me one high school that has a photojournalism class. Not at all trying to be a jerk, I honestly would like to know as it would be a cool class and guessing they have to exist somewhere - not college, high school. High school level most photography classes are not set up that way, never seen one at all but they must exist somewhere!

You randomly brought up football as a class, still don't know why, but yes it's taught in schools. PJ has to be as well but not as a full class, just like football is only part of PE.

There are more interest than just the photography company. You are pretty much exhibit #1 for my

Particularly in high school sports, it's far too easy to forget that the primary function of these events is not profit for photographers.

In the end analysis, these events are not organized for the express purpose of making a profit from images taken - that's just one portion of it.


I know, my two teaching degrees and years of coaching show I'm all about just photography and making a profit from the games! :rolleyes: Sorry to tell you things are a lot different than 30 years ago. These events trickled down some of what pro and college sports do and it was by choice of the state to do that to try and make money and get exposure. If the state came out and said nobody can make a profit from the games end of discussion. As a teacher and coach the first thing is grades, get the grades or you don't play (and yes I've coached at schools that don't do that and had to implement it myself for my own teams). The kids are not affected one bit by the deal the state has with the photography company - the game and what they are for is not affected one single bit - the school not getting a media pass for someone who is not qualified to shoot on the sidelines is not affected either as they have an option to get better photos from the official photography company.

The ones that do, however probably incorporate the photo portion into the general journalism


Probably and do are two different things - still would love to see one from a point of view of what they cover. They have to exist, least I want them to!

I respect those shooting these events (although don't tell ric that). Commercial shooters should recognize that others have a legitimate interest as well - students in particular.

Well, I'm a commercial and a photojournalist at the same time so guess my inner voices of each argue - actually I know they do. But there's no difference for a student shooting from the stands or not at all - not to mention if they have a class of 30 students then who gets to go? All of them? That'd be a cool assignment right there, go shoot the game but without credentials and see who can actually shoot PJ style.

I'm sure that photogliff negotiated the most restrictive agreement they could (it is business after all), without being punitive to the rest of those just trying to do their job.

Hope so, though do believe most should look at the IL deal for a standard.


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TaylorT
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Dec 09, 2009 10:36 |  #49

These are all really great!!!! SO clear with great color. Have you heard of the Canon NFL contest? It's over this year but you should consider entering it next year!


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canonnoob
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Dec 09, 2009 12:55 |  #50

TaylorT wrote in post #9164444 (external link)
These are all really great!!!! SO clear with great color. Have you heard of the Canon NFL contest? It's over this year but you should consider entering it next year!


I cant enter the contest... Im a professional photographer... at least that is what it says on my taxes

RE rules:

18 years of age and over (Adult) who is not a "professional photographer," that is, one who has not listed "photographer" as his/her profession on his/her income tax return or other required government filing made by him/her during the last three (3) years (the "Contestant").


David W.

  
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TaylorT
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Dec 09, 2009 21:00 |  #51

Ooooh didn't know that


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Big ­ K
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Dec 10, 2009 09:03 |  #52

MT wrote in post #9145945 (external link)
Hold on a second, while I understand where you are coming from, schools absolutely should be first on the list for credentials - especially if their shooter is a student. While it may not seem like "real" news to you, some of these school actually publish a school paper and ALL of them do a yearbook.

Particularly in high school sports, it's far too easy to forget that the primary function of these events is not profit for photographers.

The problem is not the kid from the school paper or the yearbook that is there to cover the event for the school. The problem is the parents who own cameras, have connections via the school and want to be able to be on the field to take photos for their and their friends personal needs.

The reason this is a problem is because the state athletic association, at least in Indiana, treats athletics as a cash generation stream and expects event shooters to pony up crazy amounts of money to have the right to take and sell photos. The last sentence of your above post misses the point in that you are overlooking the fact that the state association is not only making a profit off of high school sports, they are making a profit off of someone else's work and doing nothing for it.

In fact, they are making money off the photographers work regardless of how much he/she sells, then taking money away from the photographer by allowing potential customers the ability to get their own product for free.

The only one consistently making money off of high school sports at the state tourney level is the state athletics organization, who by my understanding, is supposed to be a non profit organization. They could care less about the quality, cost and availability of photos for the families and players involved, all they care about is maximizing their revenue.

I equate it to someone renting a farmer land to raise sweet corn then allowing his buddy to set up a stand on the land to give away ears of corn for free when harvest season begins.


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jonbntl
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Dec 10, 2009 09:36 |  #53

These shots are fantastic! Thanks for sharing, some real inspiration




  
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res
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Dec 13, 2009 21:26 as a reply to  @ jonbntl's post |  #54

I have been out of high school for a LOOONG time. It was a different time back then. There were no photo rights. School sports had not reached the money issue that it is today. Schools could run sports programs, not charge for them, etc. Parents and family took pictures, passed them around for each other, etc. It is interesting to see the idea that if a picture is not a "pro" image shot on a "1d" then parents should not want it. I am personally not so sure the changes have done any good for sports or our students. Now we have "rights" demanded by people who think that a parent must pay them to get decent pictures of their child. Sorry, I will shoot for parents happly as I learn and they are happy I do.

Noob, your pictures are fantastic. Love them. Keep up the work and you are to be commended for the efforts. Your stuff certainly is getting very close to high end pro level. Way above my level. Thanks so much for sharing them. Rick




  
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Dan-o
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Dec 14, 2009 07:10 |  #55

Schools could run sports programs, not charge for them

The schools are just struggling to stay in business and sports are on the low end of the priorities. There are talks of getting rid of the Freshman sports to save money at the school I shoot for. Some states have gotten rid of sports altogether.

Parents and family took pictures, passed them around for each other

Yes they did and they were not very good.

It is interesting to see the idea that if a picture is not a "pro" image shot on a "1d" then parents should not want it. I am personally not so sure the changes have done any good for sports or our students.

The parents are not forced to do anything. Pros shoot HS because there is a market for it. Parents want good photos of a once in a lifetime moment of there child. What is wrong with that? Nobody is forcing the parents to buy these and there are plenty of parents shooting, giving away photos just like the "old days".

Now we have "rights" demanded by people who think that a parent must pay them to get decent pictures of their child.

I should just go out there for free I guess. Just as the concessionaire should just hand over those hot dogs, stadium just let everyone in for free. It is a service that the parents can choose to pay for. It is not some tax that is being accessed on them.

Last game I shoot for a small christian school I had countless emails thanking me for providing great photos of the kids. Some of my biggest sales were from three moms who shot the game with me.

I will shoot for parents happly as I learn and they are happy I do.

As you learn? So what happens after you have learned?


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