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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 07 Dec 2009 (Monday) 11:15
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Lightroom 2.5 Image Size When Printing

 
MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 11:15 |  #1

I have searched and tried several approaches, but cannot get LR to adjust an image size correctly when printing.

For example, I have a Lab Test Page tif image that has a document size of 23" W x 29" H and a resolution of 180 ppi.

I can use CSR 4 Image/Image Size to change this to 8" W x 10.5" H and a resolution of 320 ppi using resampling. The reduced image prints correctly in CSR 4 on 8.5" x 11" paper and results in .25" margins top and bottom. The same thing happens in LR 2.5 with the size reduced image.

However, if I try to print the original image using LR 2.5 to automatically resize the image it does not work correctly. I have tried all sorts of combinations of settings to get it to reduce the image (as is done in CSR 4) and print with .25" top/bottom margins without success. The image fails to resize correctly.

Is this a bug, a feature??, or operator error? Can anyone tell how to make LR 2.5 automatically resize so it prints correctly? I have tested this on other computers with the same results.

Thanks


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René ­ Damkot
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Dec 07, 2009 11:44 |  #2

LR doesn't work correctly how? (As in: What does happen)


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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 11:51 |  #3

René Damkot wrote in post #9151019 (external link)
LR doesn't work correctly how? (As in: What does happen)

Depending on the zoom setting:

Zoom Off, image size is listed as 8" x 10.087" and effective bottom margin increased.

Zoom On, image size is listed as 8" x 10.5" and margins are correct but the sides of the image are cropped (loss of image).

All I want is the image to be reduced in size with no loss of the image and margins of .25" all the way around.


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René ­ Damkot
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Dec 07, 2009 11:59 |  #4

23X29 has the same ratio as 8x10.087 not 8x10.5 so LR appears to work correct...


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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 12:10 |  #5

LR does not include a image resize feature because it is suppose to resize automatically (at least that is what is says in the books I have read) when printing. I want it to change the ratio (or resize it to 8x10.5) so as to give .25" margins without loss of image.


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Nortelbert
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Dec 07, 2009 13:06 |  #6

I couldn't get it to do 4X6 (it did 3.87 X 5.87) until I turned on borderless printing in my printer driver. I'm at work now, but for what I recaell, it did nto crop the picture (no loss of photo area) once that was done




  
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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 13:11 |  #7

Thanks. I tried that too without success. Glad I have CSR 4 for image size adjustment.


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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 13:29 |  #8

René Damkot wrote in post #9151127 (external link)
23X29 has the same ratio as 8x10.087 not 8x10.5 so LR appears to work correct...

Your ratio comment got me to thinking. LR does not handle changing the aspect ratio. It will try, but only adjust to a point. Basically, it wants to keep the aspect ratio - even when exporting.

Bottom line: use CSR 4.

Thanks


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René ­ Damkot
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Dec 07, 2009 13:34 |  #9

MikeV99 wrote in post #9151721 (external link)
Your ratio comment got me to thinking. LR does not handle changing the aspect ratio. It will try, but only adjust to a point. Basically, it wants to keep the aspect ratio - even when exporting.

Bottom line: use CSR 4.

Thanks

No. Crop the image to the correct ratio...
If you change the image size in PS to 8x10.5 you are distorting (stretching) the image.


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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 13:50 |  #10

True. However, In this case, the stretch is so small as to appear not to be noticeable (10.087 to 10.5). I am trying to text the printing chararcteristics of different papers (and printer profiles) using the test image. My assumption was that the stretch would be the same for all. I have printed it with and without the aspect change and cannot see the difference.

Thanks.


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tonylong
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Dec 07, 2009 16:48 |  #11

OK Mike, I checked this out.

First of all, before we go much farther, you should know that both Photoshop and Lightroom are "printer aware" when it comes to margins. Older printers and some newer models will not print with .25" borders at the top and bottom. They are both constrained to a minimum margin -- my old printer is .25" at the sides and .46" at the top and bottom, and so when I have PS or LR set to the old printer they won't let me "shrink" the margins.

However, my two photo printers accept more narrow margins, as well as full bleed printing, so when I select Print Settings or Page Setup at the bottom of the Print Panel and select one of those printers, the margins become more open to shrinking.

Now for the aspect ratio. First of all, I understand that CS4 has "content-aware scaling" which can do the "stretch" thing while trying to keep important subject matter from being distorted, but earlier versions of Photoshop didn't have it (you'd have to manually stretch an image) and neither does any version of LR.

So, since I'm "stuck" with CS3 I do it the "old fashioned way", meaning that if you have a non-native aspect ratio you will be cropped and lose some image no matter what.

Tyically for this kind of project I'd use the crop tool to set the aspect ratio to whatever I want/need, in your case to an 8x10.5 aspect ratio, which is easily done in either Photoshop or Lightroom by popping up the Aspect Ratio list (the double arrows next to the number-ratio designating the aspect ratio in the crop tool window. Choose Enter Custom and type in your numbers and hit OK and your image is automatically set to that AR -- you will notice that in this case the image will be cropped from the long dimension, can't be helped.

From there, crop for composition if you want/need to. Then, the question of resizing -- I personally don't bother with resizing for printing -- I typically only do it if I'm sizing for Web or email diplay. Do it if you wish, but it may do nothing for your printer. Printer software does resize as needed, and typically does a nice job.

From there, you'll move to print. Since you've done this in PS but can't do it in LR, and since I do almost all my printing in LR, we'll just get that running for you:).

One thing I'll toss in here for fun: you can actually get the same results with a little more flexibility if you don't do the aspect ratio crop and just move to Print, as we shall see.

The first thing to check when you open the print module is that LR and your printer are on the same page re: margins. So, check your margins at the top of the Layout panel. By default they would likely be at .25, .25, .46, .46. To test this, click on one of the .46 numbers, type .25 and press Enter. If an error message comes up, you've got a problem, but if the change takes place, then just type that number into the next .46 and you are set.

Next, assuming the above worked, two things are needed: first, farther down the Layout panel you will see the Cell Size section. By default, it won't be correct:), at least not as you'd wish, so you will change this: type the needed width and height of your image (in this case, the figures you entered for your aspect ratio, 8"x10.5", and things should look better. However if you did not crop to the proper aspect ratio, things will still be off, but in either case, at the top panel, Image Settings, click the Zoom to Fill Frame to have the picture adjust the zoom a bit where the crop and paper settings didn't match, but if you didn't do the AR crop, look below.

Now, if you didn't crop to the needed aspect ratio you'll find one bit of useful toolage: you can actually use your hand tool to move the image up and down or side by side, depending on the paper display orientation, to move the "cropping area" around and play with the composition a bit.

Well, then, that took a lot longer to say than to do! I hope this helps a bit!


Tony
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MikeV99
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Dec 07, 2009 16:57 |  #12

Indeed it does, thank you. What I finally determined is that LR will not allow one to change the aspect ratio without cropping, i.e., it will not do the resampling "stretch" that is available in CSR 4. Since I did not want to crop, I can use CSR 4 to change the image size and then print from either LR or CSR 4. I guess this would be classified as a LR feature. I can take resize 23x29 to 8x10.087 since that maintains the aspect ratio and 8x10.5 does not or I can crop 23x29 into 8x10.5 with a loss of the image. It is either stretch or lose some of the image.


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tonylong
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Dec 07, 2009 17:02 |  #13

Well, glad you did figure it out! I doubt that the stretching thing (content-aware scaling) will crop up in LR because it is not something that really "fits" with the way LR implements and saves image changes, but it's hard to tell -- it wasn't too long ago that the idea of gradients and local adjustment brushes was just a wishful dream.


Tony
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Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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anthony11
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Dec 12, 2009 16:17 |  #14

tonylong wrote in post #9152912 (external link)
Now, if you didn't crop to the needed aspect ratio you'll find one bit of useful toolage: you can actually use your hand tool to move the image up and down or side by side, depending on the paper display orientation, to move the "cropping area" around and play with the composition a bit.

I can't for the life of me find the hand tool in the print module, and click/drag doesn't do it for me.


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tonylong
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Dec 12, 2009 20:09 |  #15

anthony11 wrote in post #9184599 (external link)
I can't for the life of me find the hand tool in the print module, and click/drag doesn't do it for me.

Hmm -- I'm not at my workstation so can't get to what I see when I do that -- when you have a larger-than="frame" imagee in the print module and you move your cursor over the image, does a hand not show up? You should be able to just click on the image and slide it back and forth.


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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