Calibrating the black point...

Well I'm mostly happy with my monitor calibration, I'm quite pleased with the color rendition of my prints (either in house or when I print on the lab), the only part I seem to not nail is the blacks, I always have quite more detail on my computer than on my prints. I have tried to play with the black point but I'm not really sure where to go.

Do I just keep adjusting till I get the closest to my prints? Is there a procedure to do this?

I have a color vision spyder 2 pro.
I have 2 monitors a crt and an LCD. The CRT is the secondary and the LCD is the primary...

Provided you have properly calibrated your system, I'm not sure you can do anything more. I'm assuming you use Photoshop so are able to softproof using the printer/paper profile before printing?

Bear in mind that the dynamic range of paper is a lot less than the image on screen.

What basic parameters have you used during calibration? I'm asking about Colour temp, Gamma, Luminence............?

What monitor?
Do you softproof?
Some reading (in the second part) here:
http://www.getcolorman​aged.com/color-management/testprint/

Also, check this video: http://revision3.com/p​ixelperfect/proofing

Some comments:

The Spyder2 calibration hardware is well documented as not being able to measure the absolute black point as accurately as say, the X-Rite EyeOne Display device. The Spyder2, for example, may report your LCD's low black point as 0.40cd/m2 while the EyeOne might measure it to be 0.20cd/m2.

When I used the Spyder2 Pro, I would specify a target white luminance value, but not a black value, because the final black value can vary as you futz with the Brightness or contrast controls. So leave the field for black luminance value empty. If your final contrast ratio is 400:1 or better, you're in good shape for printing. (120cd/m2 divided by 0.30cd/m2 = 400:1)

I now use the Spyder3 device, but combined with ColorEyes Display Pro software. Instead of 2.2 gamma, I'm using L*, which I've discovered opens up the shadow detail better than 2.2 while still retaining good contrast. I don't remember if the Spyder2 Pro software offered that option, but I think it does.

Chas,

Do you know I'd never thought of doing that sum! I get 0.2 Cd/m2, so the dynamic range is reasonable at 550-600.

With better monitors what is achievable, do you know?

Lowner wrote in post #9265535
With better monitors what is achievable, do you know?

Oh, I don't know... I guess with an Eizo you can get better than 90/0.15 = 600:1.

The LCD monitor is a Dell E228WFP (as I have read because of the panel it isn't a great monitor for photography)
I don't soft proof never actually occurred to me to do that.

My calibration settings for the LCD monitor is the following:

Gamma 2.2
White point 6500
Luminance mode: measured
Black luminance 0.25
White luminance 80.0

@Rene, I read the article but at the printing part it describes that he set that the color handling was made by photoshop, something I haven't done (I let the printer choose the colors) so I'm thinking I'll have to do some trial and error printing. I liked the technique in the video it lets you get a more accurate reading as to where it works without doing too much trial and error.

Cuervo79 wrote in post #9266086
White luminance 80.0

A bit on the low side for an LCD. 80-100 is more common for a CRT, 100-120 for LCD.
Then again, Eizo defaults to 90 IIRC. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it

Cuervo79 wrote in post #9266086
the color handling was made by photoshop

Obviously: That's the only way to exercise any control.
Like I wrote in my blogpost: For the most part, there is no trial and error involved, since the softproof matches the print very well on my system.

Cuervo79 wrote in post #9266086
Luminance mode: measured
Black luminance 0.25
White luminance 80.0

In addition to not softproofing, this is a major part of your problem. As René suggests... 100-120cd/m2 is a more realistic target luminance for a consumer level LCD like this. I'd go even further and say 120cd/m2 should be the lowest you'd want to "force" it to. No wonder you have blocked up shadow detail. And don't enter anything for the black level.

Try resetting Brightness and Contrast back to factory default levels. Then try recalibrating to 120cd/m2 using the Brightness setting only (yeah-- I know the Spyder2 Pro software tells you to use the the Contrast control, but ignore that demonic message).

ok, now that you guys are giving me advice I will tell you why I did this.
As I mentioned on my OP I have a 2 monitor setup on my desktop, one is the LCD and the other is a CRT so I set the numbers that both could reach since on the information menu option on each I was seeing discrepancies between the target and the calibrated numbers, the differences where like +/- 10, now that I have the numbers lowered they are about +/- 5.

Even though I use the LCD for my main work I use the CRT to work in DPP or should I do everything in just the LCD?

The other thing is that when I work in photoshop I have all the windows on the crt which includes the navigation window and it bothers me a bit when I see a difference between the CRT and the LCD.

ChasP505 wrote in post #9266317
Try resetting Brightness and Contrast back to factory default levels. Then try recalibrating to 120cd/m2 using the Brightness setting only (yeah-- I know the Spyder2 Pro software tells you to use the the Contrast control, but ignore that demonic message).

HUH? so the brightness isn't the backlight control?

Cuervo79 wrote in post #9268021
HUH? so the brightness isn't the backlight control?

The Brightness is indeed the backlight control. I said to only use the Brightness, not the Contrast.

I think one inherent flaw in your setup is you're treating an LCD like a CRT and trying to match the two. It's not going to happen. It's easy enough to lower even the cheapest CRT to below 100cd/m2 luminance, but the typical consumer priced LCD was not designed to operate at that low level. If you want an LCD that can operate at 80cd/m2 and still deliver shadow detail and color accuracy, you'll have to make an investment in a professional grade LCD.

so? regarding my LCD CRT dillema? I can go and adjust the white luminance but I'm afraid to push the CRT too much with this, any ideas?

Have you considered setting up your software so that one monitor sees the image and the other the tools? That way only one monitor needs to be colour managed and can have a more suitable profile? The inevitable compromises you are having to make are not helpful.

If thats not possible you need to reconsider the dual monitor decision.

Cuervo79 wrote in post #9268458
so? regarding my LCD CRT dillema?...

No solution I can think of outside of investing in an an identical or similar LCD to replace the CRT. Is the CRT of such high quality that you hate to replace it? (Think of all the energy savings plus the desktop space you'll regain!). I believe prices for electronics in Guatemala are similar to US. Find a used 17"-19" Dell LCD to supplement the bigger LCD.

I looked at some your work on Flickr and it's beautiful. I can't believe you're not already working with a professional grade monitor.

ChasP505 wrote in post #9269518
No solution I can think of outside of investing in an an identical or similar LCD to replace the CRT. Is the CRT of such high quality that you hate to replace it? (Think of all the energy savings plus the desktop space you'll regain!). I believe prices for electronics in Guatemala are similar to US. Find a used 17"-19" Dell LCD to supplement the bigger LCD.

I looked at some your work on Flickr and it's beautiful. I can't believe you're not already working with a professional grade monitor.

LOL because I don't have the money for even a nice panel LCD, at least not at the moment. Besides my hardware needs at the moment are lights first, lenses, bodies, computer hardware....