Why would you meter instead of shooting manual?

I understand why someone would meter to get the correct exposure. However, instead of metering isn't it easier (and quicker) to just shoot manual mode?

What benefits does metering have over shooting manual?

What aperture/shutter speed/ISO are you going to use unless you've somehow metered the scene?

bank5 wrote in post #9280002
I understand why someone would meter to get the correct exposure. However, instead of metering isn't it easier (and quicker) to just shoot manual mode?

What benefits does metering have over shooting manual?

You are either using a definition of "metering" that is completely different than everybody else or you lack an understanding of how the camera works.

Using a meter simply determines the 'proper exposure' value (ignoring ETTR usage). Using the camera on Manual simply sets the exposure value...shutter speed and f/stop. Two different things entirely.

Using a hand held incident light meter avoids the exposure measurement error caused by subject and scene brightness deviating from 18% gray. Using the in-camera meter (in Av or Tv or Manual) is prone to the exposure measurement error caused by subject and scene brightness deviating from 18% gray.

Using the camera on M means that changing scene content (e.g. soccer players in white or in black jerseys running in and out of the viewfinder) will not cause the exposure setting to vary from shot to shot, even though the reflected light meter wrongly thinks it should be changing.

krb wrote in post #9280125
You are either using a definition of "metering" that is completely different than everybody else or you lack an understanding of how the camera works.

I'm a noob so am getting the terms and definitions mixed up. I was playing around with the AE Lock today and I thought it was spot metering. Thanks for the replies.

I guess I'm not sure why someone would use AE lock instead of using manual mode.

bank5 wrote in post #9280408
I'm a noob so am getting the terms and definitions mixed up. I need to read more about metering but what I meant in my original post is "spot" metering. At least I think that's what it's called.

I was trying a couple things out today and put my camera in Av mode. I took two pictures, one by spot metering off a dark object, the other off a light object, and as expected got two different exposures. However, when I tried the same in M mode it didn't seem to have any effect on the exposure.

This made me wonder, does it make sense to spot meter while shooting in manual mode?

Metering mode (Evaluative, Center weighted, Partial, Spot) only determines which metering zones in the viewfinder to use to make the light measurement. Spot mode only uses the area within the small circle in the center of the viewfinder. If you wanted to properly expose for a small target in the center of the frame, Spot metering is the mode to use. However it is important to keep in mind that metering ALWAYS thinks that the target is 18% gray, even it if is really pointed at a Swedish bride in white gown or if it is pointed at a Nigerian groom in a black tux. When the target is not 18% tonality, it is important to use Exposure Compensation so that the meter reading is properly adjusted. In Manual mode that means that the metering 'needle' is not set to '0' but to the left (for less exposure) or to the right of '0' (for more exposure)

Wilt wrote in post #9280501
Metering mode (Evaluative, Center weighted, Partial, Spot) only determines which metering zones in the viewfinder to use to make the light measurement. Spot mode only uses the area within the small circle in the center of the viewfinder. If you wanted to properly expose for a small target in the center of the frame, Spot metering is the mode to use. However it is important to keep in mind that metering ALWAYS thinks that the target is 18% gray, even it if is really pointed at a Swedish bride in white gown or if it is pointed at a Nigerian groom in a black tux. When the target is not 18% tonality, it is important to use Exposure Compensation so that the meter reading is properly adjusted. In Manual mode that means that the metering 'needle' is not set to '0' but to the left (for less exposure) or to the right of '0' (for more exposure)

Thanks, that's a great explanation!

bank5 wrote in post #9280408
I'm a noob so am getting the terms and definitions mixed up. I was playing around with the AE Lock today and I thought it was spot metering. Thanks for the replies.

I guess I'm not sure why someone would use AE lock instead of using manual mode.

AE Lock and Exposure Compensation are two tools that the non-Manual shooter can use to get some control and consistency in shooting a scene that makes things "almost manual". For example, you may be in AV mode and shooting a scene that has a wide dynamic range, thing that are bright, things that are shadowed. In manual, you would adjust your shutter speed, aperture and ISO according to how you meter the scene, and then shoot away as long as the light and your orientation of the light stay pretty much the same.

Aperture priority can automatically vary the shutter speed to adjust for changing light, but of course it can get thrown off as well, so if you shoot in Av, you have to judge the light you are metering and then you have these two tools -- you can increase or decrease the exposure compensation for scenes that are lighter/darker than "medium" and, if, say, you are tracking a moving object through areas of highlight and shadow, you can hit Exposure Lock to ensure that your Av automation doesn't throw you completely out of whack.

If that sounds confusing and tedious, then you get why some of us prefer to shoot Manual whenever we can!

But, the Av, Tv and even P modes can come in handy for some types of shooting, no doubt, but it helps if you learn how to use those tools (and some others if you're shooting in P mode).

Camera makers want to attract as wide a market segment as they can, so they offer various levels of automation to match varying levels of self-confidence. Some people feel better letting the camera select one parameter after they have selected the other, so the makers provide that function. That said, there is a case to be made for the semi-auto modes in the situation where the light is frequently changing. OTOH, when the light is constant Av and Tv can cause inconsistent and poor exposures.

tonylong wrote in post #9280649
AE Lock and Exposure Compensation are two tools that the non-Manual shooter can use to get some control and consistency in shooting a scene that makes things "almost manual". For example, you may be in AV mode and shooting a scene that has a wide dynamic range, thing that are bright, things that are shadowed. In manual, you would adjust your shutter speed, aperture and ISO according to how you meter the scene, and then shoot away as long as the light and your orientation of the light stay pretty much the same.

Aperture priority can automatically vary the shutter speed to adjust for changing light, but of course it can get thrown off as well, so if you shoot in Av, you have to judge the light you are metering and then you have these two tools -- you can increase or decrease the exposure compensation for scenes that are lighter/darker than "medium" and, if, say, you are tracking a moving object through areas of highlight and shadow, you can hit Exposure Lock to ensure that your Av automation doesn't throw you completely out of whack.

If that sounds confusing and tedious, then you get why some of us prefer to shoot Manual whenever we can!

But, the Av, Tv and even P modes can come in handy for some types of shooting, no doubt, but it helps if you learn how to use those tools (and some others if you're shooting in P mode).

Thanks, that explains the exactly what I was wondering.

bank5 wrote in post #9282058
Thanks, that explains the exactly what I was wondering.

Cool, hope things are becoming less murky for you!

Wilt wrote in post #9280501
Metering mode (Evaluative, Center weighted, Partial, Spot) only determines which metering zones in the viewfinder to use to make the light measurement. Spot mode only uses the area within the small circle in the center of the viewfinder. If you wanted to properly expose for a small target in the center of the frame, Spot metering is the mode to use. However it is important to keep in mind that metering ALWAYS thinks that the target is 18% gray, even it if is really pointed at a Swedish bride in white gown or if it is pointed at a Nigerian groom in a black tux. When the target is not 18% tonality, it is important to use Exposure Compensation so that the meter reading is properly adjusted. In Manual mode that means that the metering 'needle' is not set to '0' but to the left (for less exposure) or to the right of '0' (for more exposure)

And with all this, I often set the camera to spot meter in AV setting mode. I put the spot meter on a tone I estimate to be 12% gray (not 18%...different argument), let the camera set the shutter speed, and lock that exposure, then compose and shoot. Saves a step.

As has been said, you're going to have to meter something in "M" mode. My solution: Need an exposure crutch?

Why? Post #47

RDKirk wrote in post #9282749
And with all this, I often set the camera to spot meter in AV setting mode. I put the spot meter on a tone I estimate to be 12% gray (not 18%...different argument), let the camera set the shutter speed, and lock that exposure, then compose and shoot. Saves a step.

Oh, since this diversion has been mentioned, it is DURING CALIBRATION that reflected light meters are aimed to 12% tonality per the ISO standard for meters, not 18% tonality. (The so-called 'standard' equation has a variable which has a value -- within a certain range -- which is selected by the meter maker!)

But the 'content of the average scene' is an averaged value of 18%.

I can read an 18% gray card with a hand held spot meter, and it will read the same as my Canon reflected light meter pointed at the same 18% gray card, and it reads the same as my hand held incident light meter thru the dome hemishpere.

I was on the "18%" side of that debate for about 20 years, until I went digital. With film, it was practically a moot point--few photographer's processing workflows for black and white were both consistent and accurate enough for it to matter or even consistently discernible.

But digital imaging provided a precision that allowed me to discover, lo and behold! All my Sekonic meters and my Canon cameras consistently recommended exposures that underexposed 18% gray cards by just less than 1/3 stop...as though they were actually calibrated to reproduce a slightly darker tone...like 12%.