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Thread started 05 Jan 2010 (Tuesday) 15:45
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Orion Nebula Pic - Need advice for improvement

 
JaredBush
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Jan 05, 2010 15:45 |  #1

I took this last night... The focus wasn't off but the images were still fuzzy. I am using the following setup:

*Aligned and tracking using a EQ5 PRO Equatorial mount
*8"SCT
*32mm Eyepiece
*Mounted using a tele-extender
*7D camera
*Focused on nearby stars using liveview
*Mirror Locked up
*Bulb mode using anywhere from 1 second to 30 seconds
*Remote activated

Results were all the same... fuzzy/blurry images... like below. Was there just too much camera shake? Was the atmosphere to active? What can I do to improve the image quality?

IMAGE: http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss236/ForumRiderUSA/Telescope%20Photos/OrionNebula.jpg

Canon 7D (Gripped) - Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM - Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS USM - Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM
Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM - Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di Macro - Canon Speedlite 430EX II
Calumet Genesis 400wt Lighting Kit - Manfrotto Tripod/Velbon Monopod - Skywatcher 8" SCT

  
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Michael_B
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Jan 05, 2010 16:06 |  #2

Looks like OOF..but you said it was in focus, so who knows. Did you stack, or is this one single image. I wanna say in-camera noise reduction may be a problem too, I dunno as I never have used that feature.
How low was the constellation in the sky? Typically the best time to observe/image is when your target is at or near directly overhead. Less atmospheric turbulence then.


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Nighthound
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Jan 05, 2010 16:13 |  #3

You've got some drift occurring in your tracking which can account for at least some of the blur. A few initial questions before I make suggestions:

1- Did you allow the telescope to "cool down" or equalize the internal tube temperature with the outside temperature before shooting? That time can vary depending on the amount of difference between the two.

2- What method did you use to confirm focus?

3- Has this telescope been collimated recently?


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JaredBush
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Jan 05, 2010 18:51 |  #4

Nighthound wrote in post #9331071 (external link)
You've got some drift occurring in your tracking which can account for at least some of the blur. A few initial questions before I make suggestions:

1- Did you allow the telescope to "cool down" or equalize the internal tube temperature with the outside temperature before shooting? That time can vary depending on the amount of difference between the two.

2- What method did you use to confirm focus?

3- Has this telescope been collimated recently?

Yea, I let the scope cool for a few hours... I focused on near by stars using live view and also remote shooting on my laptop. The scope is collimated, looking through the eyepiece you can tell it achieves perfect focus. It was pretty high in the sky and this was a snapshot for ~30 seconds.

I know i'm not going to get crazy photos (like others on this forum) with the equipment I have but should they be better then this? No?

I have gotten pretty sharp detail before using the same method, example:

IMAGE: http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss236/ForumRiderUSA/Telescope%20Photos/JupiterStack.jpg

IMAGE: http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss236/ForumRiderUSA/Telescope%20Photos/m13a.jpg


Any recommendations?

Canon 7D (Gripped) - Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM - Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS USM - Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM
Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM - Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di Macro - Canon Speedlite 430EX II
Calumet Genesis 400wt Lighting Kit - Manfrotto Tripod/Velbon Monopod - Skywatcher 8" SCT

  
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NovaTJ
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Jan 05, 2010 19:49 as a reply to  @ JaredBush's post |  #5

I don't know where you live or where the images were taken, but I was out the last two nights in Virginia trying to image Orion, and M31 and had to give up due to the 20+ mph winds. To me, your focus looks close as you can make out the three stars in the center. Perhaps try shorter exposures and vary your focus ever so slightly between images looking for the best.

Greg


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Jeff
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Jan 05, 2010 20:29 |  #6

Maybe try without the eyepiece in there? I've never had good luck with ep's in the train and if you can eliminate one possible source of problems it's worth the try.

Also, is this a 100% crop we're looking at?


Jeff
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Nighthound
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Jan 05, 2010 21:02 |  #7

Your M42 image shows movement, getting to the source of that movement would be step one. Any movement at that magnification will cause blur. Periodic error, a light breeze or poor seeing conditions could all be a culprit. It's easy to assess seeing conditions through the eyepiece, if the stars in the trapezium are twinkling like crazy you're probably not going to get great clarity regardless of how well focused you are. On a steady night I would start with a very short exposure and slowly increase the time until you begin to see star distortion from movement. Then I would back it down just enough to get those stars nice and round. I would shoot 30 or more exposures like that to stack. If you see movement at 1-15 seconds you are likely getting some periodic error or your alignment is way off. The clarity in your Jupiter shot is very nice but it's also a fraction of a second exposure so it's not apples to apples with your M42 shot.

Also, precise balance of your rig in both directions with the camera attached is very important to how your mount will perform during extended exposures. Learning to drift align my mount and properly balance it had a huge impact on the quality of my images and the ease of acquiring them.

One minor note worth mentioning, shooting afocal adds more glass to the light path and in addition the quality of that eyepiece and the glass within has an effect on image quality. Have you tried long exposures shooting prime focus, removing eyepiece, and diagonal if you use one? SCTs by design are "softer" so removing anything that might compound that can't hurt.

If you have collimated the scope via a star test at high magnification then you can be confident the scope is collimated. I personally would not rely on visual focus on an object to determine proper collimation of an SCT. Even a slight misalignment can compromise detail. Here's a great reference, you may already have it:
http://astrosurf.com/l​egault/collim.html (external link)

I hope this helps in some way.


Steve
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JaredBush
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Jan 05, 2010 21:05 |  #8

Tons of great advise and info guys! Thanks...


Canon 7D (Gripped) - Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM - Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS USM - Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM
Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM - Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di Macro - Canon Speedlite 430EX II
Calumet Genesis 400wt Lighting Kit - Manfrotto Tripod/Velbon Monopod - Skywatcher 8" SCT

  
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Adrena1in
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Jan 06, 2010 06:14 |  #9

Like Jeff, my initial suggestion would be to remove the 32mm eyepiece. I've never got good results using EP Projection, and I think it would certainly account for the Chromatic Aberration. The tele-extender might account for some of it too. I'd go with Prime shooting first off, then try the tele-extender and compare the two.

Another thing about EP imaging - I've no idea of the mathematics, but what difference would adding a 32mm eyepiece make anyway? Would it magnify that much?


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Footbag
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Jan 08, 2010 13:36 |  #10

Lose the EP and tele-extender. Get a T-ring and adapter. For around $30 you will improve your images considerably. EP projection is only good for planetary or solar system. Not Deep Sky.

Here's a recent image I took of the Orion Nebula with an 8" SCT at Prime Focus.

IMAGE: http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll175/Footbag01/Orionlowres.jpg

Adam
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Celestron
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Jan 08, 2010 22:28 |  #11

Footbag wrote in post #9352758 (external link)
Lose the EP and tele-extender. Get a T-ring and adapter. For around $30 you will improve your images considerably. EP projection is only good for planetary or solar system. Not Deep Sky.

Here's a recent image I took of the Orion Nebula with an 8" SCT at Prime Focus.

QUOTED IMAGE

Beauty of a picture Footbag !




  
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Footbag
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Jan 09, 2010 08:45 |  #12

Celestron wrote in post #9356008 (external link)
Beauty of a picture Footbag !

I should've said it was shot with a Celestron CPC-800 @F-6.3. Wedge mounted. A combination of exposures, but no more then 45 minutes total. I then had to do some layer masking in Photoshop.


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Nighthound
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Jan 09, 2010 09:53 |  #13

Great work all the way around Footbag.


Steve
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Orion Nebula Pic - Need advice for improvement
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