Manual Mode - Meter shot testing

I have been messing around for a few hours with manual mode on my 7D and reading up on the Histogram.

Ok so I went out today and it was cloudy outside and decided to take a few pics of some houses in the making. I went with 1/125 f/4.0 ISO 100 and the meter was racked to one side and flashing. It was centered when I reached 1/1000 f/4.0 ISO 100. Took the shot.

Went home put a Sprite box infront of my 580 EX II E-TTL mode EC +2 and set the camera on a tripod 20 feet away. zoomed in to 200mm and used 1/250 f/5.6 ISO 100 and once again the settings were racked to one side and flashing...took the shot.

Loaded it in my PC and saw that the first shot outside where the camera meter was centered, the shot was underexposed (I had to up the brightness +1.33 in DPP) and the one I took inside with the flash which the camera said not to take came out fabulous...colors of the Sprite box was very acurate.

No what the heck am I suppose to understand out of this?

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1/250 5.6 100

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gdl357 wrote in post #9346200
No what the heck am I suppose to understand out of this?

Everything is normal.

White snow and white buildings will fool the meter. (The meter is stupid. It thinks you are shooting an 18% gray card. Your scene came out gray like Canon designed it to )
That is why it underexposed. Use + Exposure Compensation when shooting all white subjects.

When using flash you do not use the camera's meter. It only tells you what the ambient light is. Your flash is the main light source and you can't meter the flash with the camera.

First shot - the bright building and snow told the meter that conditions were brighter than they were. This is why I do not use the camera reflective meter in ambient light.

Second shot - the meter in the camera does not show you what the flash is going to do, it shows you what the ambient light is. If you had taken the shot with the flash turned off then the image would have been black - just like the meter said.

OK I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK IT SEEMS...:p

So what do you guys do when you need to take indoor shots with a flash. Take a few and see which one looks best at diffecrent settings?

Is there a hand held meter that you can add the flash light to and have it calculate the correct settings?

Thx

gdl357 wrote in post #9346306
OK I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK IT SEEMS...:p

So what do you guys do when you need to take indor shots with a flash. Take a few and see which one looks best?

If the flash is going to be the only source of light in the shot then I pretty much ignore the meter. I pick an aperture for the DOF I want, I pick an ISO that I think will keep the flash from having to fire at full power (this is experience) and I set the shutter speed = synch to try and black out the ambient light.

Typical settings in a house will be f/5.6-8, ISO400 and 1/200.

The only time to watch the meter is if you are trying to balance the flash with ambient light. Then I usually want the meter reading 1 to 1.5 stops underexposure so the flash can freeze the subjects. Look this subject up under 'dragging the shutter'.

Yes, but they are a few hundred bucks and I have generally been happy enough with Canon E-TTL flash metering.

gdl357 wrote in post #9346306
OK I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK IT SEEMS...:p

So what do you guys do when you need to take indoor shots with a flash. Take a few and see which one looks best at diffecrent settings?

Is there a hand held meter that you can add the flash light to and have it calculate the correct settings?

Thx

If the flash is set to ETTL, will automatically give you the right exposure. It can also be fooled by light or dark subjects, so you can use + or - Flash Exposure Compensation. (FEC)

You can by a handheld flash meter but they are expensive.

msowsun wrote in post #9346245
Everything is normal.

White snow and white buildings will fool the meter. (The meter is stupid. It thinks you are shooting an 18% gray card. Your scene came out gray like Canon designed it to )
That is why it underexposed. Use + Exposure Compensation when shooting all white subjects.
When using flash you do not use the camera's meter. It only tells you what the ambient light is. Your flash is the main light source and you can't meter the flash with the camera.

OP needs to internalize the Blue bold large print!!! Use Exposure Compensation when shooting all NON-18% tonality subjects.

Wilt wrote in post #9346559
OP needs to internalize the Blue bold large print!!! Use + Exposure Compensation when shooting all NON-18% tonality subjects.

Yep,,inbuilt meters aren't really that smart..

They are getting smarter, though. The 7D iFCL meter can distinguish between different colors, so it can expose skin tones slightly different compared to what cameras used to do. With reddish skin, the camera can be fooled a little by the fact that the exposure sensor is a bit over-sensitive to red color.

Unfortunately, black is just very dark grey, and white is very bright grey, so this doesn't solve the 18% reflectivity issue. Only you can do that.

Here's some good reading for you:
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/c​amera-metering.htm
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/c​amera-flash-2.htm
(Just about everything on that site is good - it's a great place to browse.)

msowsun wrote in post #9346245
White snow and white buildings will fool the meter.

yogestee wrote in post #9347364
Yep,,inbuilt meters aren't really that smart..

Yes, it was also happened to me day before yesterday when I shot snow pictures using inbuilt meter. I need to edit all those picture in PS. I will upload them on Flickr soon.

Do you recommend separate light meter for taking winter/snow photos?
Thanks- Jay

jeyaganesh wrote in post #9351259
Do you recommend separate light meter for taking winter/snow photos?
Thanks- Jay

A handheld meter will still meter 18% gray but it will be more accurate if you know how to use it and know where you have to meter the light. The in camera meter can also work well if you spot meter off something. Exposure Compensation is just one of the skills that a photographer must learn. Being able to chimp off your LCD goes a long way to learning this skill.

jeyaganesh wrote in post #9351259
Yes, it was also happened to me day before yesterday when I shot snow pictures using inbuilt meter. I need to edit all those picture in PS. I will upload them on Flickr soon.

Do you recommend separate light meter for taking winter/snow photos?
Thanks- Jay

No need for that. Either use appropriate exposure compensation or, if shooting manual, dial it in yourself. Here are some guidelines for the amount:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial​s/exposing_snow.shtml

msowsun and stsva, thanks for your nice suggestions