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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 26 Aug 2007 (Sunday) 01:11
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Protective Filter FAQ Discussion

 
Lester ­ Wareham
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Aug 26, 2007 01:11 |  #1

This is the discussion and comments thread for the Protective Filter FAQ.


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Aug 26, 2007 01:46 |  #2

Very handy thread that looks past the entire emotive BS about filters I’ve read elsewhere. Thankyou

I just thought of another pro for the use of filters. I’ve sold quite a few lenses on EBay. The one question I get asked by potential buyers is "did you use a filter on this lens from new?" it seems to help with getting a good price. Mind you if you are not ever going to sell to upgrade a lens I guess it does not matter then.


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mrkgoo
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Aug 26, 2007 02:47 |  #3

Also, some lenses 'require' a filter - such as the 17-40L - to complete the weather seal.

And then there's the efs17-55, which can become a vacuum and gather dust unless a filter is attached.




  
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Lester ­ Wareham
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Aug 30, 2007 12:37 as a reply to  @ post 9349536 |  #4

aero145 wrote in post #3821598 (external link)
Good that my thread pushed someone to do this. :-P Has to become a sticky, and I think it will.

Pekka!!

Not just your thread, there are so many. This is why we need a FAQ to point people to, it should give a more coherent and balanced view.


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patlannon
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Sep 05, 2007 12:07 |  #5

Very interesting discussion, the only problem I see from my stand point is... what do I do with this plethora of glass I own?
Then Canon pipes in on their website that you should always use a haze or UV filter on their lenses. This creates a real conunderum. I guess it boils back down to "use your own judgement. Ihope I'm somewhere in the middle as I've always used a UV or haze filter for the better part of 35 years as an amature photographer.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 07, 2007 14:05 as a reply to  @ post 9349544 |  #6

00silvergt wrote in post #3875332 (external link)
This is a great job. One question open to anyone who cares to answer. A good friend of mine, told me to stop using a Digital UV filter from Hoya because he said that it was 'green glass'. He told me that the glass used for the filter was not coated, just a cheap piece of glass. In fact, he told me that in his Noink forum some guy had a very nice Noink lens that seemed soft until he took the filter out. So my question is:

1. WTH is Green Glass?
2. He claimed that 'Green Glass' is given away by the color of the light bulbs as they are reflected off the UV filter at a certain angle. I found this to be true for many of my UV filters. I looked at my glasses which also uses Hoya glass and it is coated by an AR and UV coating. So is this the 'green glass'? If so, does it really indicate poor quality glass?


Apparently (and this is only what I have heard on the net) Hoya market a low cost line in Asia that is made with ordinary or green glass, if true this may be the source of some of the reports one hears in a negative Hoya way. What the net messages say is filters marker UV(N) (I think it is) is normal glass and those marked UV(O) are optical glass.

If this is true I think Hoya are being a bit silly; but then again I would not be too surprised if there are lots of other US and EU companies that sell cheap lower quality stuff in these markets, it may well be common practice.

However as long as you get your filters from a reputable dealer in Europe or in the US you should be OK. Personally I would avoid sources on EBay and HK for filter or anything else.

Hoya filters marked HMC, SHMC, SHMC Pro 1 and Pro 1 Digital are AFAIK good optical glass that is accurately annealed and ground, certainly all the ones I have had in 30 years of using Hoya filter are. Remember Hoya are one of the top 4 manufactures of optical glass in the world with a good market share.

An easy test is put the filter on white paper, if there is no green tint (like through a window) you are in the clear (huh pun not intended). Also, if you put one of the high end SHMC/Pro 1 filters on a dark surface the coatings should make the reflections so little it will seem as if the filter frame is empty.

NB I say again this is only what I have seen on the net - there is no documention I have seen to support this green glass thing.


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Sep 07, 2007 14:08 as a reply to  @ Lester Wareham's post |  #7

Lester Wareham wrote in post #3882556 (external link)
Apparently (and this is only what I have heard on the net) Hoya market a low cost line in Asia that is made with ordinary or green glass, if true this may be the source of some of the reports one hears in a negative Hoya way. What the net messages say is filters marker UV(N) (I think it is) is normal glass and those marked UV(O) are optical glass.

If this is true I think Hoya are being a bit silly; but then again I would not be too surprised if there are lots of other US and EU companies that sell cheap lower quality stuff in these markets, it may well be common practice.

However as long as you get your filters from a reputable dealer in Europe or in the US you should be OK. Personally I would avoid sources on EBay and HK for filter or anything else.

Hoya filters marked HMC, SHMC, SHMC Pro 1 and Pro 1 Digital are AFAIK good optical glass that is accurately annealed and ground, certainly all the ones I have had in 30 years of using Hoya filter are. Remember Hoya are one of the top 4 manufactures of optical glass in the world with a good market share.

An easy test is put the filter on white paper, if there is no green tint (like through a window) you are in the clear (huh pun not intended). Also, if you put one of the high end SHMC/Pro 1 filters on a dark surface the coatings should make the reflections so little it will seem as if the filter frame is empty.

NB I say again this is only what I have seen on the net - there is no documention I have seen to support this green glass thing.

Nice info Lester, there was me thinking this green tint on reflections was the actual coating, this was on a cheapo filter btw, I will have to do this with my Pro1 & see what I find out (if I can get it to reflect a window that is) ;)




  
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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 07, 2007 14:30 as a reply to  @ Nick_C's post |  #8

Nick_C wrote in post #3882583 (external link)
Nice info Lester, there was me thinking this green tint on reflections was the actual coating, this was on a cheapo filter btw, I will have to do this with my Pro1 & see what I find out (if I can get it to reflect a window that is) ;)

If as you turn the filter you see a green, orange or blue reflection at some angles (depending on make and type) then this will indeed be the coating (you will see the same sort of thing with les coatings too).

If it is bad glass then you might expect to see a green tint looking through the filter at white paper say, an optical glass one should show no obvious colour cast like that.


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Nick_C
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Sep 07, 2007 14:31 as a reply to  @ Lester Wareham's post |  #9

Lester Wareham wrote in post #3882750 (external link)
If as you turn the filter you see a green, orange or blue reflection at some angles (depending on make and type) then this will indeed be the coating (you will see the same sort of thing with les coatings too).

If it is bad glass then you might expect to see a green tint looking through the filter at write paper say, an optical glass one should show no obvious colour cast like that.

I think thats what im looking at, the actual coating! no I have never seen any green tints when placing it on white paper.




  
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00silvergt
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Sep 07, 2007 14:59 |  #10

Ah, see that's what I figured. But just because there was a green reflection off the filter he told me to throw it away and get one that doesn't do that.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 07, 2007 16:52 as a reply to  @ 00silvergt's post |  #11

00silvergt wrote in post #3882945 (external link)
Ah, see that's what I figured. But just because there was a green reflection off the filter he told me to throw it away and get one that doesn't do that.

No, that is wrong, a reflection colour is to be expected at some angles, the SHMC coating looks green, it is the bulk glass colour you need to worry about, as long as white paper looks uncoloured through the filter its OK.

Put the filter on white paper, the paper colour through the filter should have the same colour as the uncovered paper, if it were ordinary plate glass it would have a slight green ting.


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00silvergt
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Sep 07, 2007 16:55 |  #12

Again, that's what I thought and get for listening to a Nikonian! ;) :p


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 09, 2007 13:16 |  #13

Added something on colour balance and vignetting as requested.


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Ivan
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Sep 11, 2007 18:14 as a reply to  @ Lester Wareham's post |  #14

I did a few tests regarding the HOYA UV Filter. And i am rather surprised at the results.

I did this in my room. Subject was about 4meters away.

Conclusion:
Significant quality loss by using a HOYA UV Filter on a 400mm F5.6 Lens.
Noticeable loss of sharpness and image quality.
Noticeable darker images when using filter.
When image is being zoomed it appears softer with the use of a UV filter.


This is the subject. Image is resized. No post processing done.
WITH UV Filter...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


WITHOUT UV
Filter
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


100% Crop of the above pictures WITH UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script



100% Crop of the above pictures
WITHOUT UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


The above pictures were taken with the built in flash. Camera was mounted on a tripod, and shot using remote trigger.
---------------

Below are some more crops to prove my point that the UV filter causes loss of image quality. Taken with the FLASH OFF.

WITH UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


WITHOUT UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script

---------------
WITH UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script


WITHOUT UV
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
MIME changed to 'text/html' | Content warning: script

---------------

NOTE: If you save the crops and use your image viewer and quickly view through them. It becomes easier to see.

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Nick_C
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Sep 11, 2007 18:17 as a reply to  @ Ivan's post |  #15

sonikempire wrote in post #3910106 (external link)
I did a few tests regarding the HOYA UV Filter. And i am rather surprised at the results.

I did this in my room. Subject was about 4meters away.

Conclusion:
Significant quality loss by using a HOYA UV Filter on a 400mm F5.6 Lens.
Noticeable loss of sharpness and image quality.
Noticeable darker images when using filter.
When image is being zoomed it appears softer with the use of a UV filter.

This is the subject. Image is resized. No post processing done.
WITH UV Filter...

WITHOUT UV Filter

100% Crop of the above pictures WITH UV


100% Crop of the above pictures WITHOUT UV


The above pictures were taken with the built in flash. Camera was mounted on a tripod, and shot using remote trigger.
---------------

Below are some more crops to prove my point that the UV filter causes loss of image quality. Taken with the FLASH OFF.

WITH UV

WITHOUT UV

---------------
WITH UV

WITHOUT UV

---------------

NOTE: If you save the crops and use your image viewer and quickly view through them. It becomes easier to see.

Hmm something is very wrong there, this isnt the norm.




  
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