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Thread started 08 Jan 2010 (Friday) 13:39
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5D2 metering: anyone else need +2/3 or +1 all the time?

 
aubsxc
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Mar 18, 2010 17:24 |  #61

anthony11 wrote in post #9822359 (external link)
Um, I understand metering modes just fine, and cookie-cutter condescension like the above doesn't change that.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was trying to give you good advice based on my impression that you did not understand how the metering modes in your camera worked.

To recap, in Post 35 I asked:

How did you use the spot meter to set your exposure? Did you meter off a specific tone equivalent to an 18% gray, did you meter the light colored walls or a skin tone and add a stop and a half, or something else?

To which you responded in Post 40:

How am I using the spot meter? Is that a trick question? I set the metering mode to spot and I pressed the shutter release.

My reasonable conclusion to your response could have been:

(a) you did not understand how to meter exposures using the spot meter in your camera, or
(b) you did understand how to use the the spot meter to set your exposure, but you chose to provide a flippant response.

I chose (a). Was I wrong?

You still have not responded to my original question - what did you meter in spot mode and how did you compensate if the object wasn't close to 18% gray? I now believe that you simply set the metering mode to spot and pressed the shutter (just like you said) without giving any thought to what you were actually metering or if any compensation was necessary. Given these facts, I am not surprised that your exposure did not work out as expected.


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5DII/BG-E6, 1V-HS, 17-40/4L, 24-105/4L IS, 28-105/3.5-4.5USM, 70-200/2.8L IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5USM, 300/4L IS, 1.4x II TC , 50/1.4, 50/1.8II, 85/1.8

  
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aubsxc
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Mar 18, 2010 17:26 |  #62

Wilt wrote in post #9823811 (external link)
Metered 18% gray card with Minolta Spotmeter F: 1/500 f/8 ISO100
Metered 18% gray card with Canon 40D: 1/500 f/8 ISO100
Metered 18% gray card with Canon 5D: 1/500 f/8 ISO100

Metered sky about 60 degrees from sun with Minolta Spotmeter F: 1/500 f/8 ISO100
Metered sky about 60 degrees from sun with Canon 40D: 1/500 f/8 ISO100
Metered sky about 60 degrees from sun with Canon 5D: 1/500 f/8 ISO100

Readings of the sky are affected by angular spacing to the sun, and dispersion of light by moisture in the air. Sky a few more degrees away indicated 1/400 f/8, for example

Metered with Minolta Autometer Vf incident meter: 1/500 f/8 ISO100

Sunny 16 rule of thumb expects ISO100, 1/100 f/16 or 1/400 f/8

Thanks for the information. I've run some rough checks with my handheld meter against my 5DII as well, and they are typically in very good agreement (as you have found).


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5DII/BG-E6, 1V-HS, 17-40/4L, 24-105/4L IS, 28-105/3.5-4.5USM, 70-200/2.8L IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5USM, 300/4L IS, 1.4x II TC , 50/1.4, 50/1.8II, 85/1.8

  
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anthony11
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Mar 19, 2010 12:26 |  #63

aubsxc wrote in post #9824178 (external link)
I chose (a). Was I wrong?

Yes. Saying "You don't understand" is not helpful unless you can provide a better way to do things.

You still have not responded to my original question - what did you meter in spot mode

That should be obvious given my test shots. I metered my son. I only included spot mode shots because I knew someone would ask for them.

and how did you compensate if the object wasn't close to 18% gray? I now believe that you simply set the metering mode to spot and pressed the shutter (just like you said) without giving any thought to what you were actually metering or if any compensation was necessary. Given these facts, I am not surprised that your exposure did not work out as expected.

You're not reading what I wrote. I have taken more than one shot with the camera, so speaking of my results in the singular is a non-sequitor. I find that I have to use +1 EC *all the time*, even in evaluative. Handwaving about 18% gray and special cases like white frame-filling wedding dresses doesn't explain that, and it doesn't explain why other bodies/cameras meter more accurately.


5D2, 24-105L, 85mm f/1.8, MP960, HG21, crumbling G6+R72, Brownian toddler

  
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anthony11
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Mar 19, 2010 12:53 |  #64

Wilt wrote in post #9823714 (external link)
Post your sample shots, and I think we'll see the above in the photos.

post #34.


5D2, 24-105L, 85mm f/1.8, MP960, HG21, crumbling G6+R72, Brownian toddler

  
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Wilt
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Mar 19, 2010 18:20 |  #65

anthony11 wrote in post #9829723 (external link)
post #34.

Your fair skinned, red headed subject has very bright skin! And they are dead center in the frame, where the spot would be. So the meter tried to render this fair skinned person as 18% tonality, just as I said earlier!!!

I am Asian, and my skin (after dead of winter, not even alpine skiing) is +1.3EV brighter than 18% gray, so if you did that same technique on me, the shot would be underexposed by -1.3EV, too!


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aubsxc
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Mar 20, 2010 03:24 |  #66

anthony11 wrote in post #9829502 (external link)
Yes. Saying "You don't understand" is not helpful unless you can provide a better way to do things.

The "better" way of doing things would be to teach yourself the basics of metering and exposure. My recommendation would be to pick up "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print" by Ansel Adams (external link) and read them carefully. Or you can use Google to find the same information for free.

That should be obvious given my test shots. I metered my son. I only included spot mode shots because I knew someone would ask for them.

Which part of your son did you meter with the spot? The dark hair, the white face, the shirt? If you metered the white skin you would need to add about 1.5 stops to your spot reading to get the appropriate exposure. If you metered his dark hair, you would need to subtract about 1.5 to 2.0 stops from your meter reading to get the right exposure. If you did not compensate for the light skin or dark hair, the meter reading would render the metered object as a middle gray (white skin - picture underexposed, dark hair - picture overexposed). Did you adjust your meter reading or did you just point your camera at your son and shoot?

You're not reading what I wrote. I have taken more than one shot with the camera, so speaking of my results in the singular is a non-sequitor. I find that I have to use +1 EC *all the time*, even in evaluative. Handwaving about 18% gray and special cases like white frame-filling wedding dresses doesn't explain that, and it doesn't explain why other bodies/cameras meter more accurately.

Although unlikely, it is possible that your meter is off and needs to be calibrated by Canon.

1. You can do a rough check by walking outside on a sunny day and taking a meter reading and then checking if it agrees with the Sunny 16 rule (external link).

2. You can buy a gray card from ebay, use the card to meter your exposure under different lighting conditions, and see if the exposures turn out correctly.

3. Try to get hold of a calibrated light meter (know any pro's in your area?) and check the camera meter readings against the hand held meter.

If your meter is indeed off, send it in to Canon to get it serviced.


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5DII/BG-E6, 1V-HS, 17-40/4L, 24-105/4L IS, 28-105/3.5-4.5USM, 70-200/2.8L IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5USM, 300/4L IS, 1.4x II TC , 50/1.4, 50/1.8II, 85/1.8

  
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drdiesel1
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Mar 20, 2010 04:19 as a reply to  @ aubsxc's post |  #67

PhotoVision Calibration target ;)


http://www.photovision​video.com …en=CTGY&Categor​y_Code=DCT (external link)


Nikon D810 Nikon 50F/1.4G - Nikon 70-200F/2.8II
Canon 5DMKIII - Canon 24-105F/4L

  
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anthony11
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Apr 06, 2010 16:31 |  #68

I generally aim a focus point at his face, trying to land on the closer eye, but as he's in motion, there's only precise I can end up being. Again, I only ever use spot metering when the subject has bright backlighting. I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that the camera's meter wants to make everything 18% gray with all the magic we've been told about evaluative/matrix metering having a database of scenes and knowing how to meter them.


5D2, 24-105L, 85mm f/1.8, MP960, HG21, crumbling G6+R72, Brownian toddler

  
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TheBurningCrown
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Apr 06, 2010 17:09 |  #69

anthony11 wrote in post #9945205 (external link)
I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that the camera's meter wants to make everything 18% gray with all the magic we've been told about evaluative/matrix metering having a database of scenes and knowing how to meter them.

But remember, the variety in the number of scenes in this world far outnumbers the exposure presets the camera has. If there's something odd in the scene to throw the programming off (a nice, shiny, reflective white car in the foreground of a landscape shot) you'll get an incorrect exposure.


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5D2 metering: anyone else need +2/3 or +1 all the time?
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