S90 vs. LX3 vs. DP2 ?

I'm an amateur and I've finally taken the leap and bought my first DSLR.
But guess what? That DSLR is so heavy and big (for me), and it sure does attract attention... I usually end up just leaving it at home.

Now that some of the "new crop" of P&S cameras like the S90, Lumix LX3, Sigma DP2,( and even more advanced/larger ones like the EP-1/2, Lumix GF-1,etc.) have been on the market for awhile- how do they stack up?
I've been reading reviews, searching forums, etc. but most info I'm finding are first/early impressions, and not a lot of comparisons include the S90 alongside the LX3 and slightly larger cameras.

Anyone here own/used one or more of these cameras, especially with the intention of bridging the gap between a compact P&S and a DSLR? Anyone ditching their DSLR more often in favor of one of these new breed? Of course I'm not expecting DSLR results, but at least pretty good results when used properly.

Hi. I can't honestly say I've used all of these cameras(though I have an S90 waiting for me when I get back home from work), but I have done quite a bit of general reading and shooting with manual compact cameras. I've also long ago left DSLRs, and don't really plan on looking back(though I am considering using older lenses on an M4/3 body). Before anything, I'd recommend assessing what you like to photograph. Once you know that, you can narrow down your choices.

I can safely say that before recently, this was a very niche market. Nerds would(and still) always scoff at these cameras and their lack of features and many compromises. These cameras were and still aren't made for the value minded consumer, they're made for the few with particular demands. Luxury cameras if you will.

Most of these cameras will give you the degree of control that your DSLR will have. Though not in some areas. Auto focus speed and accuracy probably won't be as good as on DSLRs. Also, because of sensor size/lens focal length combo, obtaining a shallow depth of field is extremely hard. Having a proper viewfinder is still an issue but is just a matter of preference(I don't care for one on my compact). I don't think ISO performance is much of a problem anymore, especially with the likes of the S90 and GR Digital III.

With the cameras you mentioned, some people think the LX3 performs a tad better than the S90, while the latter is a tad more pocket friendly. But you lose out on a hot shoe and viewfinder with Canon's offering(not a big deal to some). While the DP2 is fully capable of taking great photos(and if I'm not mistaken has better dynamic range than the LX3 and S90), I think a bit of the intended market just wanted a faster 28mm lens(from the DP1's 28mm f4). I remember people reading about how great it was to use indoors with low light, but the FL felt a little cramped. The Ricoh GR Digital III would be another good option in that case.

Well there's just my input on the cameras you mentioned. I personally went from a huge DSLR kit, to a GX100, to a GR Digital II, to an S90. If you need anymore let me know.

lx3 has a better lens and hd video. s90 is compact and has the reach.

LX3 does not have HD movie. If it does, help me find it.

Thought I would ask the question on here rather than a new thread.

Is the S90 novice friendly. My wife has no interest in any setting apart from Auto. Would the camera produce good shots bearing in mind she liked the shots produced on a Panasonic ZS3/TZ7 but I dislike it. I would rather have more control with the settings.

Thanks

CRE@TE wrote in post #9370972
LX3 does not have HD movie. If it does, help me find it.

The DMC-LX3 can record motion images in high-definition (1,280 x 720 pixels at 24 fps)*.

http://www.panasonic.n​et …compact/lx3/lcd​.html#no02

720p is HD.

or did I miss the joke

ken_vs_ryu wrote in post #9371463
The DMC-LX3 can record motion images in high-definition (1,280 x 720 pixels at 24 fps)*.

http://www.panasonic.n​et …compact/lx3/lcd​.html#no02

720p is HD.

or did I miss the joke

Ahhhhhh!

Thanks for the push, I looked a little harder and discovered how. I had to switch my format mode to 16:9 before the HD option screen shows.

nineohtoo wrote in post #9367818
I've also long ago left DSLRs, and don't really plan on looking back(though I am considering using older lenses on an M4/3 body). Before anything, I'd recommend assessing what you like to photograph. Once you know that, you can narrow down your choices.

These cameras were and still aren't made for the value minded consumer, they're made for the few with particular demands.

Well there's just my input on the cameras you mentioned. I personally went from a huge DSLR kit, to a GX100, to a GR Digital II, to an S90. If you need anymore let me know.

Thanks for the posts. Good points made Nineohtoo.

I think that's what I'm discovering: what kind of photographer am I? I don't really have "pro" aspirations per se, but I do like to make nice photographs of more than only family events. I come from a painting/illustration background, often I'm shooting pics to use as a reference. I want creative control and IQ, but I don't want 10 pounds of camera gear (and thousands of dollars of debt!) to babysit- for what I want to do.

I used a P&S camera for a long time (first a Sony DSC-8 (eww!), later a Canon S3IS), which in turn got me into photography. As I grew tired of the limitations of my P&S cameras (not the greatest IQ, lots of CA, annoying autofocus, pretty bad low light performance, no RAW without hacks), I thought it was time for a step "upward" to a DSLR. I didn't realize that in the process I'd forget about about what was great about the P&S- portability, spontaneity, even a little anonymity while shooting. Sure, with my 20D & a 50mm 1.4 lens I can capture some really beautiful images, but not when I don't want to lug it around.

I'm realizing that more often than not I want to shoot random stuff that catches my eye, so it would be nice to have a camera on me most of the time. That's not easy to do with a big DSLR.
The Lumix LX3, Leica D-Lux 4, & the Canon S90 seem like the closest things to what I'm looking for. I'll check out that Ricoh.

^I know what you're going through.

Personally, I don't shoot for money, and usually just photograph candid stuff on outings(I guess street photography), and concerts that allow a camera. So naturally I don't care THAT much for the sharpest or cleanest looking images. I'm more concerned with just being able to take them. For a while I toted around the typical kit. I had a couple primes, a decent zoom, a handful of flashes. Just a whole lot of gear that covered most situations.

But I noticed a few things other than having too much. For one, I didn't like carrying or having to monitor all that gear while out and about. You can get caught up in what to use instead of just taking photos. Another thing is people can act differently when around a fancy camera. I find it more challenging to photograph things naturally in this case. Lastly, a lot of venues won't let you bring in a "pro" camera, but compacts are usually okay to go.

I didn't want to lose RAW or manual controls so I looked to Ricoh because at the time it was really just them putting out a quality pocketable compact. IMO their camera design is still much better than most(front dial/rear dial or toggle wheel). However, while out of town on work, I read about the S90, and have fallen in love. So I ordered one, a Franiec grip, a lensmate adapter, and a WC-DC10 lens which should be waiting for me when I head back home at the end of the month

That GR Digital III seems like a fantastic camera! It's a little pricey, but it's got some great features. I feel like the LX3 has the best price/performance ratio right now, although that little S90 is appealing. I'm worried that the S90 will perform a little too much like a lower-end P&S, while the LX3 and GR cameras are a lot closer to DSLR quality results.

I think you have that backwards, the S90 performs like an upper end P&S. It performs like a lower end DSLR.

I'm a complete amature that's looking to get into photography a bit more (take the settings off auto a bit and experiment). I also wanted a camera my wife could pick up and use no problems. For me it came down to either the S90 or the new 4/3 GF1.

The GF1 is a superb piece of equipment. Like many I would buy the 20mm pancake lens kit and just leave that on all the time. It has a DSLR like sensor so effortlessly takes good pictures in all light conditions (esp. low light with no flash, which is the one area my old P&S was really lousy at - midday, sun shining through the windows and all my indoor shots are dark). It also has a very nice interface and screen so you can take it off auto if you want, but 90% of the time my wife and I would just use auto for great snaps. However where it really excels is in the DSLR speed performance. Push the button and focusing is near instant an a shot is taken. Click, click, click. It truely is you Point you can shoot. It also does HD movies. Pricey at $1200 or so but in the camera world that's cheap. Also I'd look to have it for at least 5 years.

So after all that I got the S90. Why? For one thing its less than half the price, so that's a big plus. It also addresses my biggest requirement in a new camera - very good low light in a P&S. It was amazing just looking at the screen as I pointed the camera at a dark corner. My eyes said it was dim, but on the screen you'd swear it was nice and bright. It also has a full compliment of DSLR settings you can tweak once out of automode and the settings ring that is positioned around the lens (which I was initially dubious about) is really nice to click around to change a given setting (eg ISO mode).

But what it really came down to was size. The GF1 with pancake lens is amazingly compact compared to most any other DSLR. And without the lens you could slip the body into a jeans pocket (little tight but it would fit). However with the lens (again only sticks out 2cm or so) its just a touch too bulky to do this. You'd need to carry it with a strap over the neck or in some sort of bag.

So in the end I've told myself, the GF1 is really the first decent 4/3 camera (esp with respect to size) however there will be some pretty big leaps in this area I suspect over the next 5 years as the price comes down and the tech improves. So I'll take my S90 for 5 years and perhaps learn a bit about taking photos and its definitely camera enough for me at the moment. Will be checking out the GF? after that

As for the S90 in my hands. Its early days but its very nice. Has a nice solid weight to it and the interface is very agreeable. There are complaints on the rear ring being to easily changed accidently, but I don't find it much of an issue. I keep it zoomed out mostly (as the lens can take in twice as much light than if you zoom in). My only sacrifice has been the speed of shooting. Takes about 1 second between each shot. This doesn't really get in the way of getting a good shot (esp if you prefocus by holding the button half down) but it does just feel a bit more like a pause click pause click etc. Love that it slips into the shirt pocket and goes everywhere. For the most part the quality of the shots it takes in most conditions would be on par with the GF1. You can search reviews and see that its only as light gets quite dim (ISO needs to gets high) the GF1 continues to excel (but I don't take many shots in really dark situations) The GF1 also handles subject motion a better however again in normal light conditions this isn't an issue.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

I have owned the D-Lux 4 and now the S90. The S90 handles higher ISO much better than the Lux 4 (LX3) and is more compact. The only gripe is a lack of hot shoe and 720P video capture.

pgdownload wrote in post #9381911
I'm a complete amature that's looking to get into photography a bit more (take the settings off auto a bit and experiment). I also wanted a camera my wife could pick up and use no problems. For me it came down to either the S90 or the new 4/3 GF1.


Regards

Peter Gillespie

Nice review, most helpfull. How does your wife like it?

Thanks for all the posts. I'm really intrigued by the Ricoh line of advanced compacts- of course they're the most expensive!
I don't have a ton a cash to sink into this, so whatever I choose has to last for awhile, and possibly take the place of my DSLR if I go with the higher-end like Ricoh's GR Digital III.
I found a great blog by a photographer that uses a lot of Ricoh gear:
http://wouter28mm.word​press.com/
Beautiful work!

Nineohtoo- have you ever tried a Ricoh GX200? Right now my contenders are Ricoh GR Digital III (or a used Digital II at the right price), Ricoh GX200, Lumix LX3 (or a Leica D-lux 4 at the right price). The S90 seems cool, but honestly I've used Canon gear for so long that I'd like to try something else for fun. Unless the S90 just kicks ass, then fine.

^Unfortunately I haven't tried the GX200. From my understanding it's about a stop or a bit more cleaner than the GX100 which I did own for a bit(and very noisy). It's probably the worst performer of the ones you mentioned in terms of dynamic range and noise.

While I still think the Ricoh GRIII is quite the animal, the value the S90 offers is what won me over. I can do w/o the optional accessories(I already sold my collection of Ricoh accessories anyways).

Though I am frustrated that Ricoh didn't throw a M4/3 or an APS-C sized sensor in a dedicated body. While the GXR's ability to swap a sensor/lens combo is kinda cool, the body costs way too much, especially when compared to a M4/3 setup. I'd rather pick up an EP-1/EP-2 and some C mount lenses. The possible sensor or lens issues sounds like a nightmare too.