karate on 30D (ISO1000/1600 help needed)

Hey guys,
Did a photo shoot at a karate contest last week and was stunned that the organisers turned the lights right down just before it started.

I did use flash some of the time, but was wary about distracting too much, and part of me wanted to see how far I could push my 30D too.

Well, I've got orders coming in for prints - the organiser took small jpg files from me to promote my sales! - so I'm not overly stressed as printing will allow me to sharpen more than on the 'net, and of course, these images are compressed, but if anyone has any extra tips just to get the best I can squeeze out of these (and 100+ similar shots!) I'd appreciate it.

First examples are at ISO1000.

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These next two are at ISO1600....and that background is getting pretty ugly!

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I recognise your frustration about the lights.... But you did well considering the limitations. Some motion blur here and there - but I think that is not easily avoided under the circumstances - especially when you do not want to flash. I do not think flash would be appreciated by the highly strung contestants.
There is noise in the pictures but it is not distracting because the shots are strong enough to look "through" the noise to the action. And if you shot RAW you might be able to reduce some of the noise in PP.
If the organisation is keen on having pictures you might negotiate brighter lights next shoot....

vk2gwk wrote in post #9397430
I recognise your frustration about the lights.... But you did well considering the limitations. Some motion blur here and there - but I think that is not easily avoided under the circumstances - especially when you do not want to flash. I do not think flash would be appreciated by the highly strung contestants.
There is noise in the pictures but it is not distracting because the shots are strong enough to look "through" the noise to the action. And if you shot RAW you might be able to reduce some of the noise in PP.
If the organisation is keen on having pictures you might negotiate brighter lights next shoot....

Thanks for the comments....I've managed to do some tweaking using layers and have a set-up now to "dissolve" some of the noise in that background, so I think what I'll do, is pay special attention if noisy pictures are ordered by customers.

Can't wait until I can pick up a 7D to push that little bit higher while still retaining a great fps rate for this kind of competition......

My first tip would be don't use ISO 1000...
The intermediate ISO's are pushed and pulled from their closest respective neighbor.

ISO 1000 is pushed (ISO 800 underexposed + 1/3 stop of "in camera PP")
ISO 1250 is pulled (ISO 1600 overexposed - 1/3 stop of "in camera PP")

Generally, the pushed ISO's have more noise than the ones above it, and the pulled ISO's are often cleaner than the full ISO stops.

TweakMDS wrote in post #9397547
My first tip would be don't use ISO 1000...
The intermediate ISO's are pushed and pulled from their closest respective neighbor.
ISO 1000 is pushed (ISO 800 underexposed + 1/3 stop of "in camera PP")
ISO 1250 is pulled (ISO 1600 overexposed - 1/3 stop of "in camera PP")
Generally, the pushed ISO's have more noise than the ones above it, and the pulled ISO's are often cleaner than the full ISO stops.

Yeah....I managed to avoid ISO1000 as much as I could for exactly that reason (95% of the ISO800 stuff is great!) but there are a few shots where I needed that extra "bit", and simply dialed in ISO1000 thinking, "I wonder......?"
You can see from the results that the 30D is now pretty-much out of the picture regarding high ISO compared to the latest gear available, but until Missus Skygod is convinced, I have to wait a little longer for the 7D I'm after.....

Can I ask what lens you used for this? I would think a prime lens wouldn't create that much blur. Keep in mind my only experience is going from an 18-55 to a 50 but I noticed a huge different in speed right off the bat.

I've been in this exact scenario multiple times. My suggestion is to simply go with your 50/1.4, so you can get a faster shutterspeed.

pickupman92 wrote in post #9398350
Can I ask what lens you used for this? I would think a prime lens wouldn't create that much blur. Keep in mind my only experience is going from an 18-55 to a 50 but I noticed a huge different in speed right off the bat.

Used the 50mm f1.4 and the 100f2.8 for all the shots that day.
To give you an idea of just how dark it was - without flash - here's another shot (uncropped RAW, converted to jpg in LR and resized/compressed for POTN) without adjustments.
It was DARK in there!!!!!

Nathan wrote in post #9398961
I've been in this exact scenario multiple times. My suggestion is to simply go with your 50/1.4, so you can get a faster shutterspeed.

I did!

This shoot was, I think, at the limit of what my 30D could do....even my own eyes were struggling, so all I can do is PP the images in LR and clone out the noise if it's too bad.

But thanks for all the comments.

Regards,
Simon

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Just wondering - was there any reason/explanation given for the low light level in the venue? This way it must have been very hard on any supporters as well.?

vk2gwk wrote in post #9403461
Just wondering - was there any reason/explanation given for the low light level in the venue? This way it must have been very hard on any supporters as well.?

No.

And the guy who'd hired me was quite angry, though powerless to intervene at the time. Now, he's ecstatic that I got the pictures I did, especially as various parents' P&S flashes were going off....and of course due to their puny output levels, only illuminating the back of the head of the spectator in front!!! So they're not happy either....but that means I should/could get more sales!

There's always the option of Noise Ninja/NikDfine/Neatima​ge etc. if you don't want to go through cloning out noise by hand. Overall, they should come out pretty good given the lighting.

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Good results already, considering that unadjusted one!

Maybe you're doing it already, but anyway - I've often found it best to do noise reduction (and sharpening) selectively. Yes you can set contrast thresholds for when they kick in, but that doesn't allow for differing importance to the viewer. For example, fuzzy- / magic-wand select a big area of background, pull the selection back from the edges a few pixels (assuming your software lets you do that - I've used Photoshop CS4), then hit it hard. Great for skies. For areas of the subject, take it easier. Eyes etc you may want to sharpen very selectively, depending.

Cheers,
Tony

griptape wrote in post #9404532
There's always the option of Noise Ninja/NikDfine/Neatima​ge etc. if you don't want to go through cloning out noise by hand. Overall, they should come out pretty good given the lighting.

Hey griptape, thanks for the edit...yes, I can see the improvement. Being a GIMPer, I'll search for a script to do the same, and I think, combining with Tony's suggestions (below) should be able to affect the rough areas selectively more quickly than treating each image by hand...

tonydee wrote in post #9404791
Good results already, considering that unadjusted one! Maybe you're doing it already, but anyway - I've often found it best to do noise reduction (and sharpening) selectively. Yes you can set contrast thresholds for when they kick in, but that doesn't allow for differing importance to the viewer. For example, fuzzy- / magic-wand select a big area of background, pull the selection back from the edges a few pixels (assuming your software lets you do that - I've used Photoshop CS4), then hit it hard. Great for skies. For areas of the subject, take it easier. Eyes etc you may want to sharpen very selectively, depending.
Cheers,
Tony

Thanks for the compliment Tony.
Yes, it was a tough call as to whether I'd be able to produce anything, but with all you guys' help, I think I'll salvage some pretty salable shots from the set.
Cheers all!