A tripod question...

I asked this question in what I assumed was the correct place, but really, this is where people use gimbals, so hopefully more will have answers to this, so I ask the below.

I did get one answer which I really appreciated, and he mentioned that a Bogen 3021 or 3221 would be a good one.
I researched that some and I saw several cases of it not being stable enough, IF I can find a used one, since they no longer make them.

I have a Flashpoint brand gimbal on a semi-cheap-o Slik tripod right now, I need to upgrade to a more sturdy tripod, and I would appreciate anyone that knows of a good combination.
The ONLY drawback is money, (that and ignorance) I can't spend hundreds of dollars, my limit will probably be 'around' $175., possibly $200., definitely not more.
Lately I've missed out on a few good buys like a Bogen-Manfrotto tripod more than a few times here in the Classifieds.
Today, and yesterday I saw some on Craigslist too, but I don't want to buy the wrong thing, even though the prices were right, it may not be as sturdy as I think...
I'm pretty sure most will say that probably isn't a good idea to go cheap, but I don't have a choice right now, so even though it may not be perfect, it'd definitely be a better one that I have now.
(I paid 'around' $65.00-75.00 for it 20 years ago for my video camera, if used with a gimbal, it wobbles some, if the tripod's neck is raised, it REALLY wobbles with the stuff I have on it)

My tripod now has the leg braces, I see that usually, the newer, more stronger tripods don't have these, so I am kind'a unsure as to why, but it doesn't matter really, if it'll hold up all of my stuff.
(I do know that one of the reasons for the ones without braces is so it can be lowered really close to the ground, which is something I would like)
My "stuff" is, a XSi, a Canon 100-400mm L lens, and the Flashpoint gimbal.

Lens.............3.0 lbs.
Camera....... 3.2 lbs.
Gimbal........ 2.2 lbs.
_______________
Total weight 8.4 lbs.

The gimbal where I bought it... http://www.adorama.com​/FPGH.html

So my question is, what recommendations would you care to bring up?
What I need it 'STURDY', weight is not a thing I am really worried about, 'now' anyway, I don't hike a long way...

Thank you, I appreciate any and all thoughts, I'd like to have it by next week so I can play with it, I want to go and try my hand at some BIF eagles, "play" being the key word here.

Randy

Greetings -
You are self-limiting to $200 which in my opinion will not get you what you want, and everything will be a compromise. You have some big lenses. A tripod is forever, lenses are forever. Bodies come and go. I bought the big Velbon with PH-275 head in carbon fiber and it will last longer than I will last. Whatever I buy in the future, it will take it. I bought the best Velbon monopod in carbon fiber; it too will oulast me. Over $1000 for these two pieces of essential equipment and never a look back.
I think scrimping on a tripod is a weak link and one you will regret in the long run.
Cheers,
John

I agree with John. I have a closet full of cheap tripods -- and the closet is where they stay. My "good" tripod is an Induro A413 which is somewhere around the lower limit of what is acceptable and unfortunately somewhat more than $200. My gimbal head is a Wimberly which is probably the best available. It is silky smooth with no stiction or free play. I believe that Really Right Stuff also makes a gimbal head. I have tried out a lot of Bogen and Manfrotto heads of various types and for the most part they are crappy, but I did find a decent Manfrotto ball head that I wound up buying for somewhere around $400. Even then, I had to disassemble it and do some fine tuning to make it operate as smoothly as I wanted it to work. I have a Velbon Sherpa tripod which is under $200, but I use it only when I need a light tripod. It is not bad for most things, but if I mount a long telephoto lens, I can see the tripod continually shaking from any slight disturbance such as a gentle breeze. It took me a while to accept the fact that a solid tripod and decent head are mutually exclusive with the word "cheap".

Slik Pro700DX legs ($89 at the time and they don't make them anymore) and a Manfrotto 488 CR2 ball head.

The legs are solid as a rock (at least I think so and I use a tripod 99.9% of the time) and the Manfrotto did it's job for the money. I've since upgraded to a Whimberly II head and haven't looked back...but it'll kill your budget.

I would use what I had now and wait a couple more paydays till I could afford a carbon fiber tripod. I recently got to try one, and the difference is black and white. Forget the weight. Metal transfers the wigglys, carbon does not. End of story.

I would like to know about your Flashpoint head. Is it nice and tight, no free play? And that link shows two different models in the zoomed images, a silver one, then a black one that does not look as good. Which is it?

john-in-japan wrote in post #9444792
Greetings -
You are self-limiting to $200 which in my opinion will not get you what you want, and everything will be a compromise. You have some big lenses. A tripod is forever, lenses are forever. Bodies come and go. I bought the big Velbon with PH-275 head in carbon fiber and it will last longer than I will last. Whatever I buy in the future, it will take it. I bought the best Velbon monopod in carbon fiber; it too will oulast me. Over $1000 for these two pieces of essential equipment and never a look back.
I think scrimping on a tripod is a weak link and one you will regret in the long run.
Cheers,
John

Hi John,

My main thing is, I am on a limited income right now, so no matter what, I can't afford a REALLY expensive tripod right now, I was hoping for a magic tripod that was in my 'magic' price set. heh
I know, I really do, that I can't get something for nothing, but I was hoping that a tripod brand, style, and price would be attainable if I got it used, new is not something that I need.
So really, if I don't have it, I just don't, but then again, I don't want to shell out money for something that won't do the job either.
I don't know if you saw that I already have the gimbal, and it's the tripod I need, so at least I don't need to get that too.

Thank you John for your answer, it is helpful.

Randy

Bill Boehme wrote in post #9445596
I agree with John. I have a closet full of cheap tripods -- and the closet is where they stay. My "good" tripod is an Induro A413 which is somewhere around the lower limit of what is acceptable and unfortunately somewhat more than $200. My gimbal head is a Wimberly which is probably the best available. It is silky smooth with no stiction or free play. I believe that Really Right Stuff also makes a gimbal head. I have tried out a lot of Bogen and Manfrotto heads of various types and for the most part they are crappy, but I did find a decent Manfrotto ball head that I wound up buying for somewhere around $400. Even then, I had to disassemble it and do some fine tuning to make it operate as smoothly as I wanted it to work. I have a Velbon Sherpa tripod which is under $200, but I use it only when I need a light tripod. It is not bad for most things, but if I mount a long telephoto lens, I can see the tripod continually shaking from any slight disturbance such as a gentle breeze. It took me a while to accept the fact that a solid tripod and decent head are mutually exclusive with the word "cheap".

Bill,

Like I was saying to John, I already have the gimbal, so all I need is the tripod, but what you say about the "cheap", I do get, I've seen some good tripods on Craigslist though, solid ones, I just don't know the best ones that will work with my gimbal.
Thanks Bill for that, it all helps.

Randy

Duane N wrote in post #9445941
Slik Pro700DX legs ($89 at the time and they don't make them anymore) and a Manfrotto 488 CR2 ball head.

The legs are solid as a rock (at least I think so and I use a tripod 99.9% of the time) and the Manfrotto did it's job for the money. I've since upgraded to a Whimberly II head and haven't looked back...but it'll kill your budget.

Hey Duane,

"Solid as a rock" sounds good, and even though they don't make them, I might luck out, that's a lead anyway.
Yeah, I looked at the Wimberly line, and it is definitely not in my budget right now, and I like the Flashpoint I have, it's a nice one.
Thanks Duane, I'll keep looking, that's one more on my list.

Randy

canonloader wrote in post #9446018
I would use what I had now and wait a couple more paydays till I could afford a carbon fiber tripod. I recently got to try one, and the difference is black and white. Forget the weight. Metal transfers the wigglys, carbon does not. End of story.

I would like to know about your Flashpoint head. Is it nice and tight, no free play? And that link shows two different models in the zoomed images, a silver one, then a black one that does not look as good. Which is it?

Hi Mitch,

There are no "paydays", hence my need for cheap! heheh (I know, wrong hobby for no money hardly coming in, but tell that to the addict on the street)
I may do like you said though, and use what I have, that's what I was going to do, but I thought that I'd ask the question here about the "magic tripod" thing. heh
In a month or two, I 'may' be able to get a better tripod, but the eagles will be gone, so I was, and am, in a kind of hurry to get something that is better than what I have now, but I'll keep looking around, maybe I'll find something that is for sale used.

On the Flashpoint, I am very impressed with it, I can't compare it to a Wimberly, since I have never used one, but as far as I can see, it's a really good little unit, it's not got any 'slop' in it at all, it's very smooth, and I don't have one complaint about it at all.
Maybe there will come a time when that 'something' will happen, so I can't say how it'll be in the long haul, since I couldn't find a single review on it on the entire web, and I looked and looked.
Normally I don't buy something without a good review, (from several places) but this time, it was either this one, or the one on e-Bay that is from India, I have read good and bad about them, so I took my chances on this one.
So yeah, it's "nice and tight, and no free play".
The one I got is the one on the left-hand side, the one that has the cradle on the bottom, I am not a big fan of the side mounted ones, I am sure they are as good, maybe better, but this one I bought just seemed a lot more natural to me.
One thing about the Flashpoint one I received, it had a place on the upper left side that looked like someone had whacked at it with a small chisel, then it was powder-coated, that's the only thing bad about it, but that shows how it could be perceived as a bad brand, or, stuff happens, Quality Control was on break maybe, maybe they don't care at all how their stuff looks, but like I said, it feels good, and I don't regret it at all, yet.
I can't give it a 100% positive rating due to that, and the small amount of time I have had it and used it, which I may have around 8 hours into it now...

Thanks for the feedback Mitch.

Randy

Really I guess what I will do is hope to get leads on a used tripod, that is my only hope, and it may not happen quick, but it will happen, well, I mean, I will get a good tripod.
I hope that people here will continue to give me some leads and/or ideas on a good tripod, ones that you know for sure will work with a gimbal, then I can continue my quest for the "magic tripod", used, of course...
(I do plan on getting a name brand, good one, but used, maybe I can even trade for it, but it won't be new, not unless Santa Claus works AFTER Christmas!)

Thanks' y'all! (Keep it coming though if you can, and I do appreciate all of the answers, and your time you put in to answer.)

Randy

I saw these discussed in a thread recently and the owners were saying they were great tripods. Feisol, for just over $200.

Randy,

Since you are also in the DFW area, why don't you give Arlington Camera a call and see if they have any good used tripods available. I recently picked up a set of light stands and 500 W fixtures along with shields in new condition for only $75 (it may have been some of their rental stuff that wasn't being used very much), so sometimes they have some bargains. Fort Worth Camera may also be worth checking out although I have never been there to see what they have.

I just weighed my 7D, EF 400 f/5.6, and gimbal head and it was getting pretty close to 15 pounds -- something to consider when getting a tripod since that would be close to the weight limit on some of them. And, the 400 mm lens is not really a "heavy" lens -- think of possible future upgrades in camera equipment.

EDIT: I missed the point that you already have a gimbal head. I think that if you used it on any reasonably sturdy tripod along with some sandbags draped over the legs to reduce vibration, it should perform satisfactorily. You mentioned photographing eagles -- I think that with a high shutter speed, you can get good images hand holding the camera. If they are flying, it might be easier to do hand held shots.
I agree about the carbon fiber tripods. I have a CF monopod and it is really nice. However, I choked on the price of a CF tripod and went with the aluminum equivalent. Metal legs transmit vibrations, but I use an aircraft tie down anchor (looks like a giant corkscrew) and bungee cords to help steady the tripod (the Induro has an anchor hook for this purpose on the bottom of the center post).

It sounds like Duane's ballhead is a similar model to mine -- Manfrotto 488MGRC2 which can serve double duty as a ballhead or be used with the Wimberly Sidekick gimbal mount which sells for about half the price of the Wimberly II gimbal head. If you already have the Manfrotto head or another head compatible with the Sidekick, then the combination is worth considering. However, don't go out and buy both because the cost of the Sidekick plus the Manfrotto ballhead plus the necessary Swiss Arca adapter plates is much more than the Wimberly II. Since getting a Wimberly gimbal head, I can't think of a good reason for having a ballhead (well, maybe for use on a spare tripod).

Something not often mentioned is the lack of commonality in mounting plates for most of the various brands. This leads to another hidden expense when you have more than one tripod head: making everything common which normally means changing everything to an Arca Swiss compatible mount since it is the most versatile.

Budget of $200 and you don't care about weight... Seems the basic recommendation of the Manfrotto 055XPROB would work well for you. I tried many legs in the $1-250 range and for rock steady support, good build, and excellent versatility, none were better than the 055PROBX. IT helps that you have the head you want, because it just gets crazy expensive for what you need/want. I don't think you can go wrong with the Manfrotto in this price range. If you find something better, I would like to know what it is, and what it does better.

canonloader wrote in post #9447408
I saw these discussed in a thread recently and the owners were saying they were great tripods. Feisol, for just over $200.

I'll definitely check into that Mitch, thanks.
If that is capable, then it will definitely be in the budget.
(I've never heard of that company before, but that in itself is not anything... heheh)

Thanks Mitch, I'll be doing some reading on that.

Randy

Bill Boehme wrote in post #9447414
Randy,

Since you are also in the DFW area, why don't you give Arlington Camera a call and see if they have any good used tripods available. I recently picked up a set of light stands and 500 W fixtures along with shields in new condition for only $75 (it may have been some of their rental stuff that wasn't being used very much), so sometimes they have some bargains. Fort Worth Camera may also be worth checking out although I have never been there to see what they have.

I just weighed my 7D, EF 400 f/5.6, and gimbal head and it was getting pretty close to 15 pounds -- something to consider when getting a tripod since that would be close to the weight limit on some of them. And, the 400 mm lens is not really a "heavy" lens -- think of possible future upgrades in camera equipment.

I agree about the carbon fiber tripods. I have a CF monopod and it is really nice. However, I choked on the price of a CF tripod and went with the aluminum equivalent. Metal legs transmit vibrations, but I use an aircraft tie down anchor (looks like a giant corkscrew) and bungee cords to help steady the tripod (the Induro has an anchor hook for this purpose on the bottom of the center post).

It sounds like Duane's ballhead is a similar model to mine -- Manfrotto 488MGRC2 which can serve double duty as a ballhead or be used with the Wimberly Sidekick gimbal mount which sells for about half the price of the Wimberly II gimbal head. If you already have the Manfrotto head or another head compatible with the Sidekick, then the combination is worth considering. However, don't go out and buy both because the cost of the Sidekick plus the Manfrotto ballhead plus the necessary Swiss Arca adapter plates is much more than the Wimberly II. Since getting a Wimberly gimbal head, I can't think of a good reason for having a ballhead (well, maybe for use on a spare tripod).

Something not often mentioned is the lack of commonality in mounting plates for most of the various brands. This leads to another hidden expense when you have more than one tripod head: making everything common which normally means changing everything to an Arca Swiss compatible mount since it is the most versatile.

Bill,

I'll see what they say about the used stuff at the places you mentioned, I have never dealt with either, but I have heard good things.

I have the total of my 'stuff' weighing in at 8.4 lbs, so I should be fine, and I know that in THIS lifetime, I won't be getting a 500 or 600mm lens. heheh
(I got the weights off of the seller's sites)
Maybe a 400mm L, but that'd be about it.

One of my main things on the tripod I have now is, the screw-up post to raise the camera, that is the really wobbly part, the better tripods don't have that, and with probably good reason.
I love that option, but I can live without it, but it does come in handy.

I agree about the proprietary stuff like the plates, I saw that too, and I considered it, but, right now, I'm having to deal with what I already have.
In the future, I will do this right, if it's affordable, my situation right now is hopefully not permanent, so maybe the money will be rolling in soon.... or... not. heh
I'm definitely going to look into the Arca stuff though, I did read about that in my searches.

Thanks for the added stuff, all of this will help me, either now, or in the event Santa does work year around.

Randy

Duncan Frenz wrote in post #9447491
Budget of $200 and you don't care about weight... Seems the basic recommendation of the Manfrotto 055PROBX would work well for you. I tried many legs in the $1-250 range and for rock steady support, good build, and excellent versatility, none were better than the 055PROBX. IT helps that you have the head you want, because it just gets crazy expensive for what you need/want. I don't think you can go wrong with the Manfrotto in this price range. If you find something better, I would like to know what it is, and what it does better.

Duncan,

I'll definitely look into that, I did a quick, but so far all I saw was it selling with a ball-head, which I don't need now.
($400. + price)
I can see just by the way that it's built it is better than my Slik. heheh

Thanks Duncan, I'll definitely keep an eye out for that type, it's on my search list.

Randy

I overlooked the fact that you already have a gimbal head. I think that with your gimbal head mounted on a reasonably sturdy tripod (your tripod is probably suitable), and with sandbags draped over the legs for damping, you should get good results. For eagle photography, you might consider hand holding the camera and using a shutter speed of 1/2000 second or faster especially if they are flying.

BTW, for just about any tripod, you will want to keep the center post all the way down. Maybe cranking up the post is OK in a studio type setting where the subject is not moving and you are using a remote shutter release, but otherwise, no.

I like doing business with Arlington Camera. They are very knowledgeable and helpful people unlike those chain stores that just hire people to operate the cash register.

recrisp wrote in post #9447642
Duncan,

I'll definitely look into that, I did a quick, but so far all I saw was it selling with a ball-head, which I don't need now.
($400. + price)
I can see just by the way that it's built it is better than my Slik. heheh

Thanks Duncan, I'll definitely keep an eye out for that type, it's on my search list.

Randy

Here is a 'headless' one for $179... http://www.amazon.com …ics&qid=1264179​928&sr=8-1

It is a ROCK. Unfortunately it weighs like one too!

Carbon Fiber would be nice for two reasons, 1.) Ability to absorb vibration 2.) weight savings.
However, if you are looking, you will notice that carbon fiber does not always mean lighter or better, but it IS always costlier!

Bill Boehme wrote in post #9447657
I overlooked the fact that you already have a gimbal head. I think that with your gimbal head mounted on a reasonably sturdy tripod (your tripod is probably suitable), and with sandbags draped over the legs for damping, you should get good results. For eagle photography, you might consider hand holding the camera and using a shutter speed of 1/2000 second or faster especially if they are flying.

BTW, for just about any tripod, you will want to keep the center post all the way down. Maybe cranking up the post is OK in a studio type setting where the subject is not moving and you are using a remote shutter release, but otherwise, no.

I like doing business with Arlington Camera. They are very knowledgeable and helpful people unlike those chain stores that just hire people to operate the cash register.

Bill,

Sandbags would be out of the question for me, although I did say I didn't care about weight, I wasn't considering sandbags, I admit! heheh
I do hike a good ways to go to some of my special spots, and sandbags would be too much, I think, I already carry a lot, plus, I just recently got a tent-type blind that I'll be using, so...
What I have done though is to push the legs of my cheap-o tripod into the firm mud along the water's edge, that seems to help, 'course, I ahve to wash it off like I do my muddy boots when I get back home. heh

I do shoot hand-held most of the time, (I still suck at BIF though!) but there is times when I like to use the tripod for that shot that I deem necessary.
(I definitely need BIF practice, and I have the UTMOST respect for those of you that do this with ease)
That's why I like the quick-release plate on the gimbal, I can remove it pretty danged quick.
I also realize that a BIF shot is not going to wait on me, but I try to do both, when I can, some days are better than others.
I usually shoot ducks (wild) and herons, egrets, that kind'a thing, and the tripod is really necessary.
On the eagle deal though, I will learn as I go, I have read many, many posts here on that subject, and I can read all day, but I won't know what to expect until I actually get out there.
I don't even know where I'll be actually, just a general location, (South end of Lake Fork) is all.
I may get there and shoot ducks and egrets. heheh
We'll see...

The part about the center post though, in my blind, I am fairly crouched down, and sometimes I need to raise the center post to get over the weeds, or just for a better shot.
I do stay away from that if possible though, I do see the shakes on this thing I have.
I haven't used my new tent blind yet though, which gives me a LOT more room, so that will be either a plus, or a minus, I'll just have to see.
I really didn't mean to imply that I was going to use the center post with a gimble for BIF though, but it did sound that way. heheh

I rarely, if ever, go into a business that sells new camera parts, I've been into Barry's, (way back) and Wolf's, (way back too) and they were a turn-off for sure, I'm sure you know how some places can be.
Both of the places you mention are fairly far from me, but there isn't a better place probably considering that Irving doesn't have anything.
I'm going to look into what you said though, on all of this.

EDIT* I sure "I" a lot, I don't mean it in an egotistical way, I'm just typing and reading so fast, I didn't realize i was doing that... heheh)

Thanks Bill,

Randy