Audio Recording - Can anyone help?

I think I might want a small but good quality portable audio recorder to use generally for voice and background sound recording...but don't really know much about them. Questions:

Is there a best format to record audio in (like RAW is for still images) that would be a 'must have' to look for in a recorder?

What are the best makes?

Anything 'important' that I should know?

Any good reading on the net suitable for beginners?

I want external microphone capability.

Can you get multi-channel...more than the two channels of stereo?

Thanks

You should be able to search all this out on the web. There are many devices available, including stereo ones, as well. I have a small Sony which works for what I want to do (just record comments, notes). Sony, Panasonic, Olympus are the major brands.

Olympus makes some nice ones; if you want to pay for multi-channel, you can get it. I have an Olympus LS-10 that was recommended by Bob Krist of National Geographic and Outdoor Photographer. Takes an external stereo mike, SD cards, or aux. inputs and does multiple audio formats. I normally do MP3 for portability.

What's your budget?

Stay away from all small "voice recorders". They're good for recording voice for transcription and possibly ENG if you're a newspaper journalist. But they're absolutely useless if you're using it for a film.

The lowend starts around 300 with the Zoom H4n. I'd spring for the DR100 from Tascam, on Amazon, it's roughly 340.

http://www.amazon.com …0&camp=1789&cre​ative=9325

http://www.amazon.com …0&camp=1789&cre​ative=9325

Both offer external mics, but the onboard mics are decent anyway, so you won't have to buy any until much later.

The H4n has the ability to record 4 tracks, 2 from the onboard mics, and 2 from the external xlr inputs w/ phantom power.

The DR100 only can do one, but it has a both a line out and a headphone monitor, where the H4n does not.

The DR100 is more suitable to being used as external mics for a DSLR because you can plug the DR100 into the DSLR mic in and listen on the monitor port on the DR100.

Thanks guys - some really helpful guidance.

kalieaire, you asked about budget; I'm beginning to come around to the sort of figures you mention. Great post btw.

What I'm wanting to do is start a project soon that will involve the acquisition of some still, movie and audio files collected over time. It is my desire/intention to acquire these in the highest quality format (within reason) as recreating the files will not be feasible afterwards.

I'm thinking:

Still - Canon RAW
Movie - HD Video format (Canon DSLR e.g. 5D Mk II)
Audio - ?? format (H4n, DR100 or similar)

Initially there is no commercial side to this, but it is possible that later this may become relevant and I don't want people to start saying 'pity you have material in format 'x', we need it in format 'y'. I have no knowledge of audio, hence this post.

This question is probably better in the digital video forum.

Someone recently posted a link there for just what you are asking and more.

I'll move your thread over.

Lester Wareham wrote in post #9496378
This question is probably better in the digital video forum.

Someone recently posted a link there for just what you are asking and more.

I'll move your thread over.

Thanks

The format you are seeking is called BWF or Broadcast Wave File. You can record your audio fils as a Mp3 and you probably won't hear a difference, but for full resolusion sound you'll want to record them as a BWF. Then you need to look at how detailed the sound is. What sample rate do you want? 44.1, 48, 88.2 or 96? What Bit rate, 16 or 24?
Lots of questions to ask, but if you look at the specs of most real video camera out there (I'm talking about the Panasonic HVX 200 and up to the Sony F900R here) you'll see that the sample rate they record audio at is usually pretty low, 44.1 or in some cases 48. And the Bit rate is usually 16 bit, rarely is it 24 bit.

Any of the recorders mentioned above are good products. I like to use a M-Audio MicroTrack II as a small two channel recorder. It's a full featured recorder that has left and right 1/4" inputs or a stereo mini input. As for outputs it has either a L & R RCA or a single digital S/PDIF out. It uses a Compact Flash port for record media. I like that because I am already heavily invested in CF cards.

By the way, my real job is as a Sound Mixer for TV shows, commercial or whatever needs to be recorded to either video or film.

Getting a sepperate recorder and mic for your video projects is a great idea. You are now on the road to making a quality product. Next you just need to hire a real sound guy to do this for you.

Chas - Thanks, that's really helpful advice.

I haven't even thought about what mic's I may need yet...that's the next challenge. I suspect (probably know) they come in all shapes and sizes too.

SAB_Click wrote in post #9518109
Chas - Thanks, that's really helpful advice.

I haven't even thought about what mic's I may need yet...that's the next challenge. I suspect (probably know) they come in all shapes and sizes too.

Ha! LOL!!!!! And you thought lenses were expensive! Welcome to my world!!!! :p

Actually. some mics are very, very expensive. The Germany made mics are some of the best out there. I love my Scheops CMC6/41. In the right environment there are few mics that are it's equal for full, rich sound reproduction. When I bought it more than 10 years ago it was the king of the heap and I paid about $2600 for it. They can be had for less now, used. It's one of those wonderful things in this world that if you treat it right, it'll last a very, very long time. So I have made that money back many times over and it sets me apart from others who don't own one.
There are other mics that are cheaper and work very, very well and then there are others that are many hundreds and some that are thousands of dollars more than my beloved Scheops. They all have their uses and places in production. On a daily basis I use my Scheops or a Sennhieser MKH-416T. I also own a Sennhieser MKH-816T for those really long reach shots. Kind of the 400-600mm version of a mic. Or I even have a AKG mic system with two different heads. Simular to the idea of the Scheops, but not to the same quality or sound reproduction. And that's just the "boom" or "shotgun" style mics. In all I have about $40K worth for field sound recording gear that I use. That's what I do for a living.

But the mic I like to suggest to people getting into this new world of sound recording is the Rode NTG-2. It sells for around $240 to $260 and is a very nice and very capable mic. I actually want to buy one for those situations where I don't want to put a much more expensive mic into harms way, but still want good sound quality. The NGT-2 is concidered a "Broadcast quality" mic. Meaning that it is at that level of gear that would be good to use for over the air broadcasts: News, commercials and TV shows.

Below that price point there are other mics that are cheaper, but I can not suggest their use at all. I would never use one of those, unless I absolutely knew it was going to be destroyed. Then I would use something like the Sennhieser or Rode "Video Mic" series of equipment. They have their own built in hotshoe adapters that seem like they would be a perfect choice to use on top of a 5DII or 7D, but I would stay away from those as well.

As you get into video production you'll quickly come to find out that this type of work is a funny one in that the ammount of money you input is directly equatable to product that comes out the other end. The more you spend on production, the better the product will be. Hacked together gear results in hacked video.

As far as hand-held recorders go, you want to search for a "field recorder".

Listen to NPR. They use field recorders of various qualities, and they get exceptional sound. You can get good ones starting at about 150 bucks.

Here's a great link with field recorders and samples. Scroll down a little and you'll find about twelve field recorders and several samples from them using the onboard mics and plug-in mics. There are also other tests on the website for various field recorders. I'm partial to the Zoom H2 because it sounds so good and is 150 bucks. It's built a little cheap, but if you don't plan to slam it around, it'll do just fine. Of course, it's more designed for setting down and recording, which makes it good for interviews and other small venues. It'll do much better than the video camera's onboard mic.

You'll have to synch the sound during post production, but that should be relatively easy.

http://www.wingfieldau​dio.com …corder-sound-samples.html

I wouldn't call syncing easy. If you don't do it right it could drive you absolutely insane. Even when you do do it right you can still end up insane.

The proper way to do it is to use a clap board and clap off every shot. Every time the camera stops and restarts you have to reclap. You still may run into issues if you don't import your audio on a timeline with matches sample rates or frame rates. You may find your audio slowly losing sync on long takes. Or is it just your imagination? The longer you spend in the dark editing room the less sure you are. Eventually you think you have it all synced and looking good so you show a producer or the client and near the middle they say "are the lips off?"

Can you tell I have been through this once or twice?

I know precious little about photography, but i AM a certified audio engineer, so maybe i can help here.

There are so many variables...
can you help narrow it down a little?

By "portable" do you mean battery operated, or will you have access to power?
What types of "events" are you planning to record. "Voice and background" sound is a pretty broad description.

Do you intend to perform any post production work? If so, how involved do you want to get?

Multi track typically means multiple mics and multiple mic cables, so it becomes less "portable" (when "portable" means "convenient") the more elaborate the setup is, and multi track isn't really necessary for the type of recording you mentioned.

One option could be a laptop loaded with audio software of some kind. There are a large number of audio interfaces (including multi-track) to choose from. I'd record everything as a .wav until post production was complete, then select an appropriate file type depending on what I was going to do with the audio files.


but then...I've been wrong before