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Thread started 28 Jan 2010 (Thursday) 19:03
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Metering and Reframing Question

 
SkipD
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Jan 29, 2010 09:00 |  #16

TeenPhotog wrote in post #9493409 (external link)
I plan on shooting in Av by the way.

I'd recommend that you use manual exposure control. Once you have the exposure set for the lighting in the area, and if the lighting does not change, you can pretty much work with one exposure setting.

When shooting in manual, you can use the camera's meter to tell you if the light is changing using a poor-man's incident light measurement. Point the camera at the palm of your hand once you've found a correct exposure for the scene (and if the lighting for the scene would also illuminate your hand). You'll probably see the needle is off a little to the right while metering your palm. If the light changes, aim the camera at your palm (when your palm is in the light affecting the scene, of course) and tweak the shutter speed, aperture, or ISO to make the needle be at the same position that you found before.


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S2K.OGRAPHY
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Jan 29, 2010 17:58 |  #17

SkipD wrote in post #9496745 (external link)
How the camera is set (evaluative, partial, spot, etc.) is VERY CRITICAL toward the photographer understanding what the meter is reading. Without understanding what the camera is doing with its metering, the photographer is incapable of making an informed decision. Because I shoot primarily in manual mode ("M"), I always have my 20D set for "Partial" metering - the closest thing the 20D can do to spot metering.

As I said above, PMC's advice is not correct. If you must use the camera's meter (and I choose to use a handheld meter more often than the camera's meter for a couple of reasons), I would suggest using the "Spot" choice if your camera has that. That way, you can sample various elements of the scene and then make up your mind about what settings to use.

Your method may work for casual photography, but if you want every shot to be well exposed because you cannot afford to experiment and throw away images, then you'll need to learn how to use a meter.

The histogram is NOT a light meter. All it tells you is how the various brightness levels in the scene are distributed in the captured image. If you shoot a snow scene, for example, the histogram of a properly exposed image will be far different from a properly exposed image of a dark alley. If you adjust both exposures to center the curves, both will be wrong.

Other than having enough experience to inherently KNOW what exposure settings to use in various lighting conditions, the only way to get your exposures right the first time is to use a light meter. Of course, one needs to have the experience to interpret what the light meter is showing you.

I use my handheld meter in incident mode 99% of the time, meaning that I am measuring the light falling on the subject and not the light reflected from it. This makes getting a "correct" exposure a bit easier, as the color or reflectivity of the subject becomes less of an issue.

The camera's meter is purely a reflected light meter, and has significant limitations because of that. The photographer's training and experience is especially important when using a reflected light meter.

i assumed this was the case. i always shoot in M. but i was never entirely clear on how the different metering modes affect the way the light meter reads. using spot seems to make sense. i will be doing some experimenting. thanks for taking the time to give a helpful response


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PMCphotography
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Jan 29, 2010 18:10 |  #18

SkipD wrote in post #9496745 (external link)
How the camera is set (evaluative, partial, spot, etc.) is VERY CRITICAL toward the photographer. understanding what the meter is reading. Without understanding what the camera is doing with its metering, the photographer is incapable of making an informed decision. Because I shoot primarily in manual mode ("M"), I always have my 20D set for "Partial" metering - the closest thing the 20D can do to spot metering.

As I said above, PMC's advice is not correct. If you must use the camera's meter (and I choose to use a handheld meter more often than the camera's meter for a couple of reasons), I would suggest using the "Spot" choice if your camera has that. That way, you can sample various elements of the scene and then make up your mind about what settings to use.

Your method may work for casual photography, but if you want every shot to be well exposed because you cannot afford to experiment and throw away images, then you'll need to learn how to use a meter.

The histogram is NOT a light meter. All it tells you is how the various brightness levels in the scene are distributed in the captured image. If you shoot a snow scene, for example, the histogram of a properly exposed image will be far different from a properly exposed image of a dark alley. If you adjust both exposures to center the curves, both will be wrong.

Other than having enough experience to inherently KNOW what exposure settings to use in various lighting conditions, the only way to get your exposures right the first time is to use a light meter. Of course, one needs to have the experience to interpret what the light meter is showing you.

I use my handheld meter in incident mode 99% of the time, meaning that I am measuring the light falling on the subject and not the light reflected from it. This makes getting a "correct" exposure a bit easier, as the color or reflectivity of the subject becomes less of an issue.

The camera's meter is purely a reflected light meter, and has significant limitations because of that. The photographer's training and experience is especially important when using a reflected light meter.

While all of that is quite correct, I think it's safe to assume the OP is fairly new to photography and learning which settings to use and when. It's also fairly safe to assume he does not have a seperate light meter. What a few have suggested is the way a lot if us use M mode- by finding exposure settings that work (by experience, a handheld light meter, camera meter, chimping, etc.) And transferring those to manual.

Using a handheld meter is much more accurate, but also much more inconvenient. I have one, but wouldn't bring one to a performing arts show. It might get lost, broken, stolen, etc.

Once you have the manual settings dialed in, pointing the cameras spot meter at various elements in the scene will make the needle move around- because you've set the exposure, and it's telling you the exposure IT would set, if you let it.

I just don't think talking a lot about a hand held light meter and how ir works helps this particular poster and the original question, when it's almost certain he doesn't have one.


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TeenPhotog
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Jan 29, 2010 19:29 |  #19

PMCphotography wrote in post #9500360 (external link)
While all of that is quite correct, I think it's safe to assume the OP is fairly new to photography and learning which settings to use and when. It's also fairly safe to assume he does not have a seperate light meter.

I just don't think talking a lot about a hand held light meter and how ir works helps this particular poster and the original question, when it's almost certain he doesn't have one.

Correct.
I'm going to be experimenting at a show tonight, so I'll be sure to give a novice perspective when I get home.
Thanks for all of the really well written replies guys. I really appreciate it.


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CafeRacer808
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Jan 29, 2010 19:41 |  #20

I continue to be amazed by people who shoot in manual at live shows. Maybe it speaks to the type of shows I go to (mostly smaller, indoor venues like the Viper Room, Roxy, etc), but with lighting conditions that change all the time, I find that I get much more consistent results by spot metering in Av. I can't even begin to imagine trying to meter a performer with an incident meter while I'm standing in front of (and usually 3-4 feet below) the stage. There are always new things to learn and try, right?

At any rate, good luck tonight, TeenPhotog. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your captures.


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TeenPhotog
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Feb 02, 2010 14:51 |  #21

here's what I ended up with, I'm fairly pleased, and yes I still chose to shoot in Av. Tell me what you think.
http://alexabramowitz.​daportfolio.com/galler​y/294345 (external link)
Thanks again everyone


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CafeRacer808
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Feb 02, 2010 15:50 |  #22

Way to go! You've got some nice images here, especially given that it was your first time shooting something like this. I'm glad it worked out for you! Out of curiosity, since you shot in Av how did you ultimately address the problem of metering and reframing you mentioned in your OP?


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TeenPhotog
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Feb 02, 2010 16:39 |  #23

well, thank you first of all. I was in spot for a good part of the time which was working, and nothing was clipped, sometimes partial if I felt the background was worth seeing a little better, and for this one I switched to evaluative, trying to develop him slightly, but still have some silhouette-esque feel.

IMAGE: http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/o/2010/033/7/4/7445f9f0a275ce23d147f21e7afcbc3c.jpg

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CafeRacer808
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Feb 02, 2010 16:44 |  #24

...and look at that...you've chosen my favorite image from your set... ;)


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PMCphotography
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Feb 02, 2010 16:56 |  #25

Whoa! Nice job!


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TeenPhotog
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Feb 02, 2010 16:59 |  #26

funny how that works..
since you like that caferacer, which of the two do you prefer? i thought the color version has some pretty cool light, but a little less intense.

IMAGE: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4325578167_1aea31ae34_b.jpg

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CafeRacer808
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Feb 02, 2010 17:11 |  #27

I love the colors in the version above, but the b&w edit is still my preference. While I generally don't like crushed blacks, especially where faces are concerned, I think it works in this case. By crushing the face and going for a tighter crop (which really emphasizes the motion blur in the hair), I'm stricken by the raw power and emotion that I imagine the subject is feeling (ie - the intensity you mention above). To my eye, the subject's more nonchalant expression in the color version robs the image of a lot of great emotion. Finally, the b&w reminds me of some of the great b&w jazz and rock photography that my old boss from years ago used to specialize in, so I definitely have a soft spot for images like that.

Just my two cents... :)

PS - so when's the next show you're going to shoot?

Edit: I went back to look at these again and realized the b&w image isn't a tighter crop at all, is it? Heh - my bad! All the same, the b&w conversion really allows the hair to pop against the background. ;)


Dave d-.-b
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TeenPhotog
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Feb 02, 2010 18:25 |  #28

If nothing changes, it looks like Umprey's Mcgee in late this month, hopefully something sooner, but i doubt it.
I'm also thinking of getting a hood, which i was not remotely interested in prior, because I've seen at least two good images 'tainted' with some flare.


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Veemac
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Feb 02, 2010 20:30 as a reply to  @ TeenPhotog's post |  #29

Alex, your photos are great and I can't offer any critique on them (I agree with CafeRacer about the B&W one, btw - very powerful!). Just a helpful pointer for you in regards to your website, though - You misspelled "Photographer" on your title at the top left, and also on the meta tag that shows up on the browser tab. Not trying to be "anal" or hyper-critical, I just thought you'd like to know so you can correct it.


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TeenPhotog
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Feb 02, 2010 21:38 |  #30

wow..thanks.
without looking gonnna guess it's like photagapher or something


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