How to answer questions by aspiring photographers

I think it is unreasonable to try to tell someone what their aspirations should be, or for that matter, how they should pursue them. It is absolutely reasonable to try to help them, and if it's in your heart, give them every benefit of your experience. It you don't feel you are of a mind to help, don't.

I don't feel any great moral imperative to protect brides and grooms from incompetent photographers, either personally, or on behalf of the forum. If the wedding is to be the single most important event in the couple's lives, they have a responsibility to themselves to fully investigate facilities and the people they hire. That would include the church, the reception hall, the pastor, the organist, the soloist, the caterer, the limo service, and yes, the photographer.

I aspire to see brown pants and a white belt.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I barely knew what an aperture was when I first started. I shot my first wedding two or three months into digital SLR ownership. I even asked "should I shoot RAW or JPEG for my first wedding?" and I still hadn't decided which I was going to use until I pulled the camera out on the day and said to myself, "farkit I'm used to JPEG so I'll stick with JPEG."

I learned everything NOT to do at that wedding. My second wedding was for a millionaire who could have flown Yervant from Australia if he really wanted to and it netted me 5x the amount I made on my first wedding and I did a *relatively speaking* awesome job - the bride bought something like 200 prints, albeit small ones. Basically at least one print of each photo I proofed.

In 2008 I shot my first destination wedding, in Mexico, and then almost exactly a year later shot my 2nd destination wedding, in Jamaica.

Where does that place me? Should I have never even done that first one? If I turned it down I'd still be shooting volleyball with the Bigma in a middle school gym for $5 per published photo.

cdifoto wrote in post #9547807
I barely knew what an aperture was when I first started. I shot my first wedding two or three months into digital SLR ownership. I even asked "should I shoot RAW or JPEG for my first wedding?" and I still hadn't decided which I was going to use until I pulled the camera out on the day and said to myself, "farkit I'm used to JPEG so I'll stick with JPEG."

I learned everything NOT to do at that wedding. My second wedding was for a millionaire who could have flown Yervant from Australia if he really wanted to and it netted me 5x the amount I made on my first wedding and I did a *relatively speaking* awesome job - the bride bought something like 200 prints, albeit small ones. Basically at least one print of each photo I proofed.

Your one in a million CDI... literally... miracles do happen

I just realized something having read CDIfoto's post... Some of the real talent and skilled photographers on this board started out using methods and equipment that should NOT be recommended... but you know what? they pulled it off... which is why they don't feel compelled, maybe even a little bit guilty to tell others to get proper training... because they did not.

My story is very different. I researched on and off for THREE years into digital and when I shot at my first wedding (which I was second shooter) I had spent $15,000 on the absolute minimal of what it actually takes to do weddings full time. I was extremely prepared and very confident and I knew right from wrong the very first time. I did not get surprised that day.

However, the super star stories like CDI are very rare (well the stories aren't there are allot of wanna be posters but real is rare). For every one person who has pre-existing talent there are thousands who don't... just look at all the "my first wedding" posts on the internet... crap and not acceptable to making our industry look good.

So for you people who are special and just had the talent to start with don't feel bad about recommending what others should really do, not what miracle happened for you.

To those of you aspiring photographers take heart... you can make it, you can do it, but don't gamble with someone elses life... just because you get lucky does not make it right.

pcunite wrote in post #9548075
My story is very different. I researched on and off for THREE years into digital and when I shot at my first wedding (which I was second shooter) I had spent $15,000 on the absolute minimal of what it actually takes to do weddings full time.

I don't think you need to spend that much. 30Ds are very capable bodies and you can still get those in great condition for less than 400 bucks. Two of those? $800 tops.

A good lens or two is all you need for range, and you can get those for under 3 grand.

Flashes? Only about $900 for two brand new 580EX IIs without rebate.

Memory cards and batteries are so cheap...we're talking what? 200 bucks on the high side?

So not niggling over the computer most people already own, and DPP being free with the camera and/or download from my very own website, we're talking $5,000 or so to get a complete, basic, two-of-everything setup for weddings.

pcunite wrote in post #9548075
However, the super star stories like CDI are very rare (well the stories aren't there are allot of wanna be posters but real is rare). For every one person who has pre-existing talent there are thousands who don't... just look at all the "my first wedding" posts on the internet... crap and not acceptable to making our industry look good.

Super star? Hardly. Pre-existing talent? Yeah right. I have to bust my ass. My first wedding was garbage and I seldom admit to ever doing it. Those pics haven't come out of the archives since being archived.

pcunite wrote in post #9548075
To those of you aspiring photographers take heart... you can make it, you can do it, but don't gamble with someone elses life... just because you get lucky does not make it right.

Again, no one is gambling with anyone's life. It's a wedding. It's not open heart surgery.

If anyone's gambling with anyone's life, it's those brides shovin' their 'tog in a straw with wings to get to their destination wedding.

cdifoto wrote in post #9547807
I barely knew what an aperture was when I first started.

My second wedding was for a millionaire...

...the bride bought something like 200 prints.

In 2008 I shot my first destination wedding, in Mexico...

...a year later shot my 2nd destination wedding, in Jamaica.

Where does that place me?

I'd say you're ready for the speaking circuit, DVD self help courses for $129 and maybe even your own line of on camera tupperware diffusers.

If the OP was really worried about Brides, not just berating aspiring photographers, why not take the conversation (rant) to some bridal forum? Certainly that would be the right place to help protect these damsels in distress?

RT McAllister wrote in post #9548313
I'd say you're ready for the speaking circuit, DVD self help courses for $129 and maybe even your own line of on camera tupperware diffusers.

Sounds pretty good when you strip it down into soundbites like that.

Pcunite, I had the exact same start as CDI. You can look at my early posts here just a few years ago to see that. I shot in P mode and thought that shooting manual meant using manual focus.

I have many friends -- many -- who didn't start the way you prescribe. Josh Newton is one. David Jay another. Jasmine Star. Orange Turtle... I could go on and on with successful photographer after successful photographer.

I still do not understand how you feel qualified to make this whole post. As far as we know, you're a struggling photographer who's competing with craigslist shoot and burners, produce average work, and are merely venting because business isn't going your way and you're blaming newbs for that fact. You're speaking about a subject that almost requires some sort of platform -- a reason for people to listen to you, so to speak. The only thing you've shown us here is that you can complain and the same mediocre photos you showed us last year in a similar thread.

I think I'm more qualified to speak on both photography and business (in regard to photography, at least) than you are, and I wouldn't feel qualified to speak as certainly as you have (especially in the way you have). I just don't understand why you are so hell bent on this topic. I think I do, actually -- which is why I so strongly disagree with you.

Bottom line, we have a finite amount of effort we can put out there. I choose to put my efforts into my business in a positive manner -- only concerning myself with things I can improve and not spending time putting my efforts on things outside of my control.

Bobby

bnlearle,
I will not respond to you on everything but calling my images mediocre is really just a stab at me don't you think? I shoot for money not for forums. You should read how Kirk Tucker talks about what he calls the Flickr Effect... it is a very good read...
http://visualsciencela​b.blogspot.com …ation-of-photography.html

If you can not see the skill in my images (do not evaluate the PP amount which I use very little of) then you are blind, have a bad monitor, or are just wanting to put me down because few here want to publicly complement me because that would mean supporting my thoughts. Read the above link from a successful photographer, much more so than you and I may ever be.

I am not blind, I have a great monitor, and I have no desire to put you down because I disagree with your opinion here.

If you shoot for money, where is your website? Where are your photos? I've booked 4 or 5 weddings off of POTN, and having my site/blog linked on here has helped my google strength a great amount. It's bad business if you're trying to make money and don't have a link here. You should seriously consider linking to your site/blog in your sig.

There are several photographers here who have proven themselves to be successful, solid photographers and businessmen. Tim and Lloyd come to mind. The Boundless duo. The Orange Turtle crew (they haven't been here in a while). Mike (Fulton). There are others who are doing what they ought to do in order to climb up -- putting out great work along the way (CDI comes to mind) -- who will be where they want to in no time. Then there's you. A guy who posted four photos last year and then the same ones this year -- insisting they are great -- with no website or real way for us to know that you are even a working photographer (no less a working wedding photographer). All the while insisting that people need to change what they're doing -- without providing us any reason why you ought to be listened to.

I'm not trying to be cruel. I never go out of my way to critique people who aren't asking for it -- but the point is that your OP does in fact ask for it. I'd argue that in order for you to say what you've said, it requires that you be something of note. You aren't. I mean, you may be, but you aren't when all we have to go off of are the handful of photos you've shared on multiple occasions, 900 posts with none of them having photos, and no link to your site.

My advice to you is to start posting your work on a regular basis. Get a more accurate idea of the quality you are putting out. One of the biggest business killers in photography is the temptation to overrate oneself. The ability to accurately rate ones photography skill sets is an integral part to real success in this field. It helps you have appropriate confidence (as opposed to arrogance) and lends the ability to market yourself where you fit (instead of trying to convince people that you are a high end wedding photographer when you don't actually fit in just yet). There's nothing wrong with still being in the "figuring it out" stage. The only thing that's wrong with it is being in that stage but convincing yourself that you are far above it.

It reminds me of American Idol when this one singer is convinced they sound like Beyonce, the judges tell them that they aren't ready for something like this, and then the singer insists that they don't know what they are talking about.

Bobby

I am totally with you on how my anonymity is making my case harder to present which is why several posts back I stated to just shut this thread down. I absolutely will not post my website for a variety of reasons.

I work for myself full time... I have since 2003 and I live 100% from my sales, I have a wife and three children... this is why I am very adamantly against weekend warriors who trash the bride instead of the dress. If I am to go out of business I would rather it be from persons better than me, not thousands of hacks taking away work from my portrait business. They are wrecking every single angle that exists.

To give you an idea of what I have seen... this certain person I see often asked me one time about improving her images. I gave her a recommendation on using flash. A few months later a family we both knew who was going to go with me for an event (not a wedding) ended up going with her. And yes... she hacked her way through. This family previously having no option would have received quality, quality that they did not understand or appreciate of course but quality none the less. But thanks to me being helpful not only did I lose a job but ruined their day. By the way she did it for free which made my realistic prices seem way out of line.

If you can not accept that you are speaking with a professional because you see no skill in the images I have posted then that is your choice. Just let this thread die and I'll go on with my life and you move on with yours.

I have considered making a website/domain for just forum display purposes only. When I do I will post asking for feedback on my portfolio. I have been wanting to do this anyway for marketing purposes as you have mentioned.