How to answer questions by aspiring photographers

pcunite wrote in post #9512926
The first wedding I ever did I had spent $15K on duplicate equipment, lights and other proper equipment... and I was the second shooter! I knew alot more than most because I spent over a year researching what to do before I ever shot at a wedding. I care about people...

I guess the OP is really just clarifying - "We can answer the questions of those new to photography, but we don't want them going away from these forums assuming they are fully 'prepared' to shoot a wedding. And the responsibility for the photographers final product can not fall to POTN."

Asking "what flash should i get" may indicate 'unpreparedness' but it DOES indicate curiosity and a willingness to LEARN - which is what we are all about here at POTN.

IMHO

Karl Johnston wrote in post #9513001
Just find Tim and read all of his 33 000 posts

I for one am grateful to have this forum as a resource. The guys who come here to give advice do it on their own time, and users of all skill levels benefit from it. I've personally seen many posts where these same users are warned that they are not ready to handle a wedding on their own, but are politely advised on what they may need if they plan on going through with it. You could also start your own "Pro's Only" forum, if you don't like the nOOb questions.

+1

M_ark wrote in post #9519949
Asking "what flash should i get" may indicate 'unpreparedness' but it DOES indicate curiosity and a willingness to LEARN - which is what we are all about here at POTN.IMHO

I think there a 2 levels of "newbie" questions...

- Those who have put in some type of effort into self research and just need a little "guidance". I'm ok with this and don't mind helping these folks at all.
- Then you have the folks (who the OP was referencing) who don't have a effin clue and haven't put ANY time or effort into at least learning some basics. The folks who ask me...what kind of camera do you have ? Then ask, "Why do you have 2 camera's ?" Seriously, the least bit of research into wedding photography would reveal that all wedding photog's have backups of their bodies and just about everything else. It's certain things I think you should have some clue about before attempting to document the most important day in a couple's lives.

Just throwing this out there:

If you are losing business to "the hacks", it would seem to me that this says more about YOU then THEM.

I'm guessing that one of the issues is some of these HACKs are creating some nice images.... maybe they have to snap 2000 to get them, etc. So, what are YOU doing to differentiate yourself? If you aren't 4 times better, why would you think you're worth 4x more $$$?

I suspect this is the same thing that is separating the "men from the boys" in Sports photography (fighting the Dads with Cameras) and the product photogs (fighting ubiqutous stock sites), etc.

BTW, not everyone here disgrees with the OP. I guarantee the buggy-whip union agrees with your position 100% - those guys are STILL mad about the whole automobile thing!

I just bought a 200L 2.0. What do I shoot with it at a wedding?

Geno DM wrote in post #9527455
I just bought a 200L 2.0. What do I shoot with it at a wedding?

I think, you're way past ducks - maybe it warrants and upgrade to swans...
... there's swans at weddings isn't there?

HA!!!

I wanted to write down something to explain to people wanting to try wedding photography what they are really against. I wanted to be short, but its a lot more complicated and it ended being about 6000 words.

You can read it there : http://www.michelgauth​ier.ca/Podcast/Archive​.html

michelgauthierdesign wrote in post #9531367
I wanted to write down something to explain to people wanting to try wedding photography what they are really against. I wanted to be short, but its a lot more complicated and it ended being about 6000 words.

Michel,
Thank you for joining this discussion and also for properly preparing yourself. If all newcomers where only like you.
　
Just for conversation sake... I think your write-up is nice and good for people who are already doing weddings, kinda of like a reminder list. But sadly arrogant wedding wreckers just read it and feel like they have studied enough because it came from someone they want to be like. There is no replacement for hands on when it comes to weddings and sadly hands on often means ruining the day for the bride. I am just saying that all these posts and write-ups and forum help are not helping... there kinda of making it worse and making these people lust after actually doing a real wedding. There are no barriers to entry...

Everytime someone says "You need proper gear, you need to be prepared, you need to watch out for this..." these people say to themselves "okay... I think I can handle that now that I know"...

What I am saying is that this is not rocket science but neither can you learn from an internet forum. And hands-on means wrecking the day... brides first... wannbe's second... that is all I am saying...

Well if you read some of the items in my article, you will see that its NOT a ''how to guide'', but rather what they should expect or do if they want to eventually do wedding.

Exemple:

1-Don’t think you can do it because you got a 1500$ camera and you take nice picture

Wedding photography will test your charisma, technical knowledge, stress endurance level, creativity to the maximum. Chances are, if you agree to take on a wedding with no experience, you will screw up the memory of the most important day in the life of your client/friends.

There is too much to capture in one day, to much camera adjustment to work on during the day (if your camera is set on auto, please, don’t even bother to go any further, go read a TECHNICAL book about photography), to much people and guest to ‘’direct’’. There is just too much things that can go wrong.

So the solution: If you really want to get into photography, get yourself a portfolio of all your best pictures, and submit them to one of a photographer in your region. Try to offer your services as a non-paid assistant and occasional second shooter. Yes you will be bringing his bag, bringing him water, new memory card and even park his car for most of the day, but you will learn a lot! You will observe his technical tricks and how he manages the crowd. You will learn more in 8 hours with him than setting up 50 photo shoot with your friends and family.

First part is the artile is there; http://www.michelgauth​ier.ca …for_new_photogr​apher.html

michelgauthierdesign wrote in post #9531726
So the solution: ...Try to offer your services as a non-paid assistant and occasional second shooter. Yes you will be bringing his bag, bringing him water, new memory card and even park his car for most of the day, but you will learn a lot!

No offense but this, "go learn from a pro" suggestion just starts sounding pretty lame after a while. It just isn't practical anymore and for the select few that manage to do this well, they are the "select few".

Show me 100 pros and I'll show you 95 who flat out refuse to train their future competition (with just cause) and 4 more who will abuse the assistant in all the ways you describe.

Instead, go shoot weddings for free. A lot of them. Find couples who have no photographer simply because they can't afford one and explain what they're getting. Put cousin Bob on the sidelines.

Parking the main photographer's car or carrying his flash card wallet will not make you a better shooter. Only shooting will.

Yeah I agree with a lot of what RT Mcallister said. You learn to shoot a wedding by shooting a wedding! I'm not sure how I'd respond if I got a random person asking me to tag along and learn how I work, since they too want to be a wedding photographer... Not that how I work or what I do is so revolutionary, but still.

I work with a few second shooters/assistants now, but they make it clear they have no interest in being a pro themselves- they don't want the stress or hassle. They like showing up, taking some pictures, and handing me their cards when they head home.

I help photographers who are trying to be pros in my area all the time. There's plenty of weddings for everyone -- and if you're putting out great work, sell yourself as a respectable artist, and give an awesome experience for the couple, you'll be working. If you don't? You could lose out to the "competition", I suppose...

pcunite wrote in post #9531533
I am just saying that all these posts and write-ups and forum help are not helping... there kinda of making it worse and making these people lust after actually doing a real wedding. There are no barriers to entry...

Talent isn't a barrier to entry? These brides just hiring folks without looking at their work?

I hate to say it, but if you are SO threatened by the "noobs, rookies, craigslisters,etc" than I fear its more a measure of YOUR talent.

If you are good enough, you wont even be in their league. If you are losing business to them, either they aren't as bad as you think, or....

The elitist tone in the original post is staggering. I for one am grateful to the people that have given me advice and continue to do so. I simply cant understand the position of PCUNITE?
I looked and looked to see some of his work thinking I was going to be wowed and impressed by the images taken by a god among peons (those of us asking questions) and I could not find any? Well I did find one or two that are snaps basically?
If you are gonna come on here bellyaching about "hacks" and "newbs" muddying up your water then lets see the water brother! I want to see this magic that you are so reluctant to share with the masses?

Dude, whats up with the drama...I dont get it?

Im just sayin.......