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Thread started 01 Feb 2010 (Monday) 17:51
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Is it infringement if

 
Karl ­ Johnston
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Feb 01, 2010 17:51 |  #1
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You copy someone's concept? I never thought so, and it sounds pretty stupid really when you think about it.

If I took a shot of a mountain and another guy came in the same spot, or happened upon the same spot and shot the same mountain is it infringement?

To me it sounds ridiculous, though I was sent this model mayhem thread by a fellow advertising photog asking the question(myself not being a model photographer, have no reason to be on there...and even if I were, I doubt I'd get a serious answer anyway :roll: )
http://www.modelmayhem​.com/po.php?thread_id=​552136 (external link)
What do you guys think? Does that photographer have a case against said photographer who 'copied' his concept?


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channel_49
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Feb 01, 2010 17:57 |  #2
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No, he can't do anything about it. Don't feel sorry for him either, hes got a massive ego.


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Karl ­ Johnston
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Feb 01, 2010 18:00 |  #3
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Figured so.. I think that's silly really. Just because said photographer shoots in black and white all of a sudden he copyrights the act of shooting in black and white? Yeah right.


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RDKirk
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Feb 01, 2010 18:16 as a reply to  @ Karl Johnston's post |  #4

If I took a shot of a mountain and another guy came in the same spot, or happened upon the same spot and shot the same mountain is it infringement?

There was a case in the US where a photographer took a cityscape from a famous landmark at a very specific point of sunrise that captured a very unique effect as the rising sun struck various landmark buildings. That image got widely published.

Later, another photographer took an identical shot from the identical position at the identical sun angle. A court ruled it to be copyright infringement. The court's opinion was that the second photographer didn't just happen by chance to shoot from the same vantage point. The court believed it was an undeniable attempt to duplicate the first photographer's image--a copyright infringement.

There was another case in France in which the tourist ministry of France published a photograph of a couple on a carnival carosel. The wide-angle shot was of a woman in a polka-dotted frock sitting on the hobby horse on the left of the image with a man in a dark suit and tie on the right of the image. An editor at Getty thought he recognized the image as one of theirs, but didn't recall having sold anything to the French tourism ministry. He checked their files and did find a shot, a wide-angle view with a woman in a polka-dotted frock on the left sitting on the horse with a dark-suited man on the right. The posing was virtually identical, although obviously the models were different. A French court ruled it a copyright infringement in favor of Getty.

It very much depends on whether the court can be convinced the second image was a deliberate attempt to duplicate the first image. You can't copyright an idea, but you can copyright a specific implementation of an idea.


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Chairman7w
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Feb 01, 2010 18:25 |  #5

RDKirk wrote in post #9520628 (external link)
It very much depends on whether the court can be convinced the second image was a deliberate attempt to duplicate the first image. You can't copyright an idea, but you can copyright a specific implementation of an idea.

Well, I'll be damned.




  
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Karl ­ Johnston
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Feb 01, 2010 19:21 |  #6
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I'll be damned too. I'd hate to see the legal fees of guys that shoot in the rockies.

Like how many times have we seen this.
http://www.experienceb​eforeyoudie.com …es/lake-louise-708811.gif (external link)

Same ledge over and over. I start to wonder if someone has a X mark the spot sign where to take a photo


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440roadrunner
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Feb 01, 2010 19:27 |  #7
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I think the recent US supreme court decision concerning politics and corporations proves that courts don't always "get it right."


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RDKirk
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Feb 01, 2010 19:51 |  #8

Karl Johnston wrote in post #9521016 (external link)
I'll be damned too. I'd hate to see the legal fees of guys that shoot in the rockies.

Like how many times have we seen this.
http://www.experienceb​eforeyoudie.com …es/lake-louise-708811.gif (external link)

Same ledge over and over. I start to wonder if someone has a X mark the spot sign where to take a photo

In each of the cases I mentioned, though, there were a number of factors that came together to indicate a unique implementation of the idea. If you could have seen the cityscape, for instance, that took an extremely precise congruence of position and sun angle to create a unique effect of reflectance from windows, skylights, et cetera. It wasn't just a matter of being on the same rooftop in the morning.


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channel_49
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Feb 02, 2010 10:16 |  #9
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Law only works if you have money.


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Feb 02, 2010 10:29 |  #10

channel_49 wrote in post #9524826 (external link)
Law only works if you have money.

Or in these cases, the prospect of defendents with deep pockets.


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channel_49
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Feb 02, 2010 10:32 |  #11
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RDKirk wrote in post #9524885 (external link)
Or in these cases, the prospect of defendents with deep pockets.

Apparently corporations in America are trying to push for copyrighting ideas,
I dunno much more than what the conspiracy videos on youtube say, plus I'm Canadian.


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RDKirk
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Feb 02, 2010 10:44 as a reply to  @ channel_49's post |  #12

Apparently corporations in America are trying to push for copyrighting ideas,

I don't think so. I think there is a clear delination between an idea realized and an idea unrealized. For instance, many of Annie Leibovitz's Hollywood group shots for "Vanity Fair" clearly show the influence of Cecil Beaton's pioneering eye for group posing, but none of them slavishly copies an actual Cecil Beaton group pose.

Press photographers (and papparazzi) nearly always shoot close-to-identical images of news events and celebrities, and the copyright of every shot is owned by the photographer who took it (or his employer).

In none of these cases has a photographer looked at someone else's work and then set out to make as close a copy as possible.

In general, US corporations have been pushing for tighter and longer copyright protection of ideas realized (which is already far longer than envisioned by the Founding Fathers when they wrote the provision for copyright into the US Constitution).


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Feb 02, 2010 11:42 |  #13

RDKirk wrote in post #9521192 (external link)
In each of the cases I mentioned, though, there were a number of factors that came together to indicate a unique implementation of the idea. If you could have seen the cityscape, for instance, that took an extremely precise congruence of position and sun angle to create a unique effect of reflectance from windows, skylights, et cetera. It wasn't just a matter of being on the same rooftop in the morning.

This whole "duplicating the shot" concept makes me wonder about what happens when the tour bus stops at a scenic overlook or somewhere similar, and 20 or 30 people all pile out to take a picture of the scene. Does the first person to fire a shot get the copyright? Or is it a race to the copyright office to see who can register their shot first? How about all the folks who piled out of the bus on the same tour the day prior??

All these questions are of course toungue-in-cheek, but it is potentially a slippery slope depending on how stringent the criteria for determining what a "copied shot" is and is not . . .


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RDKirk
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Feb 02, 2010 13:22 |  #14

golfecho wrote in post #9525340 (external link)
This whole "duplicating the shot" concept makes me wonder about what happens when the tour bus stops at a scenic overlook or somewhere similar, and 20 or 30 people all pile out to take a picture of the scene. Does the first person to fire a shot get the copyright? Or is it a race to the copyright office to see who can register their shot first? How about all the folks who piled out of the bus on the same tour the day prior??

All these questions are of course toungue-in-cheek, but it is potentially a slippery slope depending on how stringent the criteria for determining what a "copied shot" is and is not . . .

I had just spoke of that:

Press photographers (and papparazzi) nearly always shoot close-to-identical images of news events and celebrities, and the copyright of every shot is owned by the photographer who took it (or his employer).

In none of these cases has a photographer looked at someone else's work and then set out to make as close a copy as possible


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Feb 02, 2010 13:29 |  #15

RDKirk wrote in post #9525953 (external link)
I had just spoke of that:

Oh . . . sorry. I hope it wasn't a copyright infringement . . .:oops:


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