wonky horizons

can anyone tell me how to avoid wonky horizons
i use a hotshoe spirit level when using tripod, but i still seem to get them, even when the bubble is centre , its strange. and i have two spirit levels
also handheld is worse. (maybe my heads not level)
the only way i do it on tripod is to shoot a few test shots first. but my ageing 30d is clocking up the shutter count now, and extra clicks to straighten the horizon may push it over the edge
how is the inbuilt spirit level in the 7d. does it work

I just look through the viewfinder with a conscious intention of keeping the horizon level. Then, I make minor adjustments afterward in my RAW conversions.

i know it can be sorted in lightroom. but you get some cropping in the process,
id rather avoid if i can
its more frustrating on the tripod
ill post some examples soon of what i mean when using tripod and having the bubble centered

I like the level in the 7D a lot for tripod work and even hand held occasions (ie if I'm holding the camera at ground level using live view). I would say whats even more useful on the 7D in this situation is the virtual grid you can pull up on the 7D which would help you line up horizons (if that's my understanding of your situation). I think the 30D has interchangeable focus screens no?

Edit: On my XSi I would always try to line up the focus points with the horizon or at least level them out if I could.

markyb wrote in post #9525476
i know it can be sorted in lightroom. but you get some cropping in the process,
id rather avoid if i can
its more frustrating on the tripod
ill post some examples soon of what i mean when using tripod and having the bubble centered

I'm talking about shooting from a tripod and looking through the viewfinder. You should be able to get it VERY close. I only notice it's off in RAW conversions by checking it with a level (i.e. straight-line tool), then rotating the fraction of a degree to make it horizontal. Very minimal cropping.

sorry thought you meant handheld
anyway here is one taken on tripod with bubble in the middle

sorry here it is

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Stop relying on your bubble and look through the viewfinder. That's the best solution to your problem.

Think about what your problem is for a moment...you're relying on a spirit level that's what...about an inch long and probably made overseas.
A longer level is better and a 6 ft level is better yet...like guys in the trades use, but that's impractical for us.

Better to get it close using your eyes or a grid in your viewfinder and fine tune it in PP.

On the above image...you weren't able to see that in the viewfinder?

markyb wrote in post #9525911
sorry here it is

Wow...I've never heard of a level being broken, but that one sure must be! I'd ditch the level and eyeball it - you should be able to get much better results than that just by looking through the viewfinder. I'm an amateur and don't always get my horizons perfectly straight, but if I looked through the VF and saw that, I'd rip that level off the camera and chuck it as far as I could. Relying on a level like that despite what your eyeballs say is akin to the stories of the idiots who drive into lakes and say "but I didn't see a lake on my GPS!"

There should be a tutorial somewhere in here about how to use a spirit level.

its not always as bad as the above example, but very rare its spot on
i dont have a grid in the viewfinder so thats out.
is there a level that is reliable , what about the one with the traffic light system
ive tried studying the horizon when looking through the viewfinder, but only way i can do it at the moment is to take test images till its spot on
how about hand holding ant tips on that

I just use the focus points to set my horizon line to level.
Infact, they are spaced almost perfectly to achieve this. (kinda in thirds of the frame)

^^ :P

Mocows wrote in post #9525480
On my XSi I would always try to line up the focus points with the horizon or at least level them out if I could.

Mocows wrote in post #9527460
^^ :P

Acknowledged, post edited.