How much?

I think this is more a "chalk up to experience and walk away" situation, but maybe some new wedding photographers can learn from my mistake here.

I have a good client who has hired me to shoot a few of his events and family gigs. He pays my hourly rate, buys prints at full price.

He reference me to his best friend, who is getting married - she wants a wedding photographer, with the catch that she wants a CD of the images at the end, and no prints. I'm ok with that, and am doing another like it this summer (I've shot one wedding so far, so still feeling my way around). I let my client know that's ok, get her in touch with me and we'll organize everything.

She approached my while I was shooting a family party for my client, nice woman, shows me some examples and idea's she had saved on her iPhone, explains she wants the final CD of images, not the prints - so far so good. She asked how much I charge, and I figure, as a favor to a friend, I'd charge my normal onsite hourly rate. She wants roughly 6 hours.

Then she drops the bombshell. She's got a budget. And another photographer. She's budgeting a whopping $25 an hour.

So now I'm semi committed to a best friend of a good client, who knows how much I charge, and wants considerably less. I was too shell shocked, and in the middle of another shoot, to really get into it, so we exchanged email addresses and promised to chat more.

No way I'm going to do it for that price - it'll be a max of $150 - including a CD of the final photos? no way.

I just need to figure out how to word this to her, and to my client, and not burn bridges.

Lesson learned - don't try to multi-task in the middle of a shoot!

Disclaimer: I'm the consummate antisocialite. I don't do well with people. Also, I'm only an amateur photographer.

Were it me, my reaction would be this:

"I'm really sorry. I can't do it for $25/hr, and I certainly can't compete with your other photographer. You should go with the other photographer. Sorry, and thanks!"

I'd say the exact same thing, mathogre, and I'm a pretty social guy

And I love your screen name

Bobby

bnlearle wrote in post #9529656
I'd say the exact same thing, mathogre, and I'm a pretty social guy

And I love your screen name

Bobby

Thank you Bobby!

(On the screen name, the entire name is an anagram of my full real life name. I work as a mathematician (real world business card says "Mathemagician"), so mathogre has some minor, but real meaning.)

I agree - I don't think you have any obligation to work below your hourly rate, and it doesn't sound like you ever implied to your client that you would. Only that you were willing to do the work, and to burn a disk. The rate is insulting - your client should be the one concerned about upsetting you.

"I'm sorry but I charge $250/hr, not $25. That other photographer sounds like great value, you should hire them".

Oh, I didn't make it clear

She wants *BOTH* of us, at $25 an hour each!

I'm not a full time photographer, I've only done one wedding (and that was for a friend, free shooting, she pays for prints), but I've done enough paid home studio shoots with families, dancers, friends birthdays, parties and events to know $25 an hour is a price I'm not prepared to even take my shiny new 7D out of it's bag and risk it for!

Sorry but I think your looking at this the wrong way round, if you were an established professional wedding photographer with a great portfolio and inquiries coming in thick and fast then you have every right to be a bit insulted at her offer and turn her down flat.

At the moment you dont really have a portfolio to attract paying wedding clients so if you want to shoot weddings in the future you need to decide what your prepared to do to get a decent portfolio that will attract that business.

I shot at quite a few friends weddings as a guest completely for free and provided them free prints and a CD after their wedding to supplement shots from the pro they had hired.

I shot a workmates wedding completely for free (it actually cost me about £125 out of my own pocket in expenses)

I shot a few more friends and friends of friends weddings for very little, probably a bit more than $25 an hour but after taking into account expenses and other things and products supplied, time on post processing visits to venues etc probably a lot less than $25 an hour!

I then shot about 30 weddings for very cheap, probably equivalent to about $25 an hour after after taking into account expenses, products supplied etc.

When I was confident I could handle the different aspects of shooting a wedding, the customer service afterward and had the portfolio I wanted I started to increase my prices to reflect this.

Some people go and second shoot for others for little or no money and thats a good way of getting the experience, others do as I did and forge their own way but charge according to their experience and skill level.

I think either way is valid so long as your honest to yourself and your clients on where your currently at.

pcj wrote in post #9529236
(I've shot one wedding so far, so still feeling my way around)...

...She's budgeting a whopping $25 an hour.

I think she's being more than generous with your training.

What you charge is NOT what you make.

Lets take me as an exemple, I charge 949$ for 7 hours of shooting time. Do you think I make 135$ per hour? .... NOT EVEN CLOSE! lets really brake it down:
My operating cost for PART TIME shooting is about 8000 per year (update equipment, insurance, website, advertising, promo, gas, parking etc) and I do about 20 wedding per year. That 400$ per wedding just to be able to offer this service, the rest is profit... that is 549$

But I spend about 3 hours meeting the client and organizing the schedule and doing research, 8 hours the day of the wedding (drive, arrive a bit early, leave a bit late and drive again), 12 hours of editing, 3 hours for the website, final DVD and cover etc. That is a total of 26 hours. 549$ / 26 hours equal a whopping 21$ per hour.

It sounds like you're a little concerned about offending your long term client by disappointing their referal on the rate. I would tell you it's the other way around; be concerned about pissing off your client because you took on this other work at a rate far below anything you've ever charnged him; he will almost certainly find out.

She's trying to be a beggar and a chooser. Why does she need two photographers? Tell her for $150/hr, you will fix pictures taken by a $25/hr photographer.

Peacefield wrote in post #9531411
It sounds like you're a little concerned about offending your long term client by disappointing their referal on the rate. I would tell you it's the other way around; be concerned about pissing off your client because you took on this other work at a rate far below anything you've ever charnged him; he will almost certainly find out.

+1

To quote the great Bob Sugar:

"It's not Show Friends, it's Show Business"

mckinleypics wrote in post #9531455
She's trying to be a beggar and a chooser. Why does she need two photographers? Tell her for $150/hr, you will fix pictures taken by a $25/hr photographer.

Love this answer

You're in a tough spot. I generally shoot for friends and associates and friends of friends, but I don't charge. If I did, they couldn't afford me. I would charge no less then $100/hour, maybe $200/hour depending on how many people I have working with me. I generally have 2 second shooters and we all do around 250-500 shots for the client. But you've already committed to it. Make it clear that this is a favor, and that your usual fee is much more. If they recommend you again to someone else, make sure your good work reflects the real price of what you charge. For the purpose of keeping a good client and having future clients, this is sound advice. But, if this client continues to offer your services for cheap, a good conversation is in order. You are the pro, communicate with your client. My friends used to offer my services too readily since I shoot for fun and for free. After I explained in full how much time it takes to do a "friendly" shoot, they understood the sacrifice it is in my time to do this for them. They don't do that much anymore. I think people are quite understanding even though they want something for nothing or for free.