Ever wish it was the 50's again?

RDKirk wrote in post #9607042
It is a nostalgic myth that the 50s were any less rude or any more simpler than today. Whether people treated you rudely was--as today--totally a matter of who you were and what "station" of life you held.

Whether life was simpler was also a measure of how much money you made. There was nothing "simple" for a woman running a home without today's modern appliances, there was nothing "simple" about working in a factory without today's automation and safety procedures.

I must respectfully disagree with this poster.

It is correct money can make physical labors simpler and that women and minorities had a difficult time in the 50's and 60's, and before and since. On the other hand, money cannot buy you civility and caring. Certainly, no one really lived in a "Father Knows Best" or "Leave It to Beaver" world, however, IMO the difference was that in those times, the vast majority of people had a family and neighborhood support system that they were answerable to. Today, while there are pluses and minuses on both sides, how many single parent families exist through divorce, unintended consequences of social policy and changing moral standards, while Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins either don't exist, are unknown or are scattered across the country? This puts an oversized burden on the caretaker, less accountability to the children and leaves some of the "freed" partners able to totally avoid responsibility.

While we certainly had our issues; segregation and prejudices, a very real threat of nuclear annihilation and Communist inspired witch hunts, amongst others, it was also a time of hope for better days ("Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country"), as evidenced by various races working together for a common goal of justice, equality and a colorless and sexless society. While my wife and I have achieved the latter, we are still working towards the former and shame on all of us for that.

We weren't wealthy, but when I was growing up, if someone was rude to another person, there was usually a societal or especially a parental price to pay. Today, with the constant use of cell phones, texting, tweeting and the anonymity of the internet, people are less like to converse face to face anymore and therefore may not develop the interpersonal skills. This is not being a crotchety, "kids, get off my lawn" old guy complaint, as plenty of my contemporaries do this also. We also don't have to worry about the safety in factories, since most of our manufacturing has been off-shored anyway, but I guess being a Wal-Mart greeter is simpler than being a business executive or an entrepreneur.

I'd love to temporarily go back to the 50s... if I could take a 1Ds MkIII, and a bag full of glass, batteries and CF cards. I could document amazing American industry, railroads and mining while leaving all the politically correct bs of todays world behind. That would be a nice vacation.

going back 60 years to the fifties is just one stop on this imaginary bus ride. I live in the western part of the united states, and the yearning for the past is a common affliction around here. It is not based on any real thought about the facts of living in, say, the 1890s (twice as far back as the fifties).

There was photography, but it required huge equipment and exposure to deadly processes. But you could go out and take pictures of mountains in the wilderness and someday they would name the place after you (Jackson hole)

Hollywood would have us beleive that fear of violence brought about social civility, that rudeness and criminality was met by instant justice and kept in check. The reality was that many outlaws never even saw a lawman, that many civilians never saw either. Hospitals were where you went to die, there was no expectation for any cures there. The first real 'cure' was for...wait for it...syphillis (sp?).
Any thoughts of going back to a better time have to be balanced against the realities of living in that time.
The fifties might have been closer to leave it to beaver than we will ever be again, but they were also a difficult time for most people, especially those outside the mid to upper classes.
there might have been more civility, and the anonymity brought about by more concentrated populations, better communications, and less face to face interaction might be the reason it has all but disappeared. But the facts are, going back would be a huge hardship for most of us.

For the people who were subject to those issues, all else was obliterated. When you can be murdered or raped and it is literally not a crime, there is no such thing as "common civility." When you suffer daily humiliation and have to nod and accept it with a smile, because a frown would get you beaten, tortured, and murdered--and society would not consider that a crime--there is no such thing as "common civility." The 50s sucked. If you were white, maybe you could pretend that it didn't, because it didn't suck for you as much. But it did suck.

dicky109 wrote in post #9607320
it was also a time of hope for better days ("Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country"), as evidenced by various races working together for a common goal of justice, equality and a colorless and sexless society.

Sorry, that wasn't the fifties. It was the sixties.

I'm with RD all the way. The fifties was an ugly time - I was there.

-js

My aunt who had polio in the 50's thinks that the decade was a bummer.

RDKirk wrote in post #9607894
For the people who were subject to those issues, all else was obliterated. When you can be murdered or raped and it is literally not a crime, there is no such thing as "common civility." When you suffer daily humiliation and have to nod and accept it with a smile, because a frown would get you beaten, tortured, and murdered--and society would not consider that a crime--there is no such thing as "common civility." The 50s sucked. If you were white, maybe you could pretend that it didn't, because it didn't suck for you as much. But it did suck.

Honestly, telling only a small, extreme part of history and acting as if it were the norm is taking history out of context. Abuses happened. There is no excuse for them, but those you describe were rare. Overall, the 50s were a time of values and decency that we will never have again. I am glad the abuses of the past have been corrected. Unfortunately, we sold our values, decency, an drive to excellence along the way and ushered in political correctness, a disease of the mind that is destroying western society.

I leave all my play toys behind in a second to be in the 50's.

The USA was at it's peak, not the rotting husk that it has become today... 2010 sucks, and the leaders if not hopelessly corrupt, are inept.

District_History_Fan wrote in post #9607987
Honestly, telling only a small, extreme part of history and acting as if it were the norm is taking history out of context. Abuses happened. There is no excuse for them, but those you describe were rare. Overall, the 50s were a time of values and decency that we will never have again. I am glad the abuses of the past have been corrected. Unfortunately, we sold our values, decency, an drive to excellence along he way and ushered in political correctness, a disease of the mind that is destroying western society.

I think what you call 'values and decency' a lot of other people might call enforced conformity.

And the problems with the 50's go far beyond a small minority. Half of society are women. In the 1950's women were drastically resctricted in the activities they could be in (there were no sports), how they could live, what they could study etc. Many women simply grew up obedient to their fathers and then passed straight to obedience to their husbands.

And the situation for minorities was worse. Legal and enforced segregation limited opportunity at every turn. Worse schools, discrimination in banking and housing, discrimination on the job. This was broad and pernicious.

I think some people watched too much 'Leave it to Beaver'.

The US was the only economy left standing after WWII. The broad prosperity enjoyed by americans in the 1950's and 1960's was largely because companies like GM and GE had no global competition.

JeffreyG wrote in post #9608020
The US was the only economy left standing after WWII. The broad prosperity enjoyed by americans in the 1950's and 1960's was largely because companies like GM and GE had no global competition.

The USA payed a stiff price fighting a war it could have ignored. Not all was good as the RR's were doomed because of the heavy war time usage that never was fully compensated for or repaired.
Many a US merchant marine gave their life as well when they could have just as easily stayed at home.

Not to mention the money that was payed for not just the war, to her allies, but to help rebuild other nations after the war. If anything the USA gave too much... it deserved a few perks.

blackhawk wrote in post #9607998
I leave all my play toys behind in a second to be in the 50's.

The USA was at it's peak, not the rotting husk that it has become today... 2010 sucks, and the leaders if not hopelessly corrupt, are inept.

Yeah bring back McCarthy (I don't think he encouraged a positive attitude toward artistic types). Somehow I don't think leaders have gotten worse just different on the good and bad bits. I don't think the Americans should whine too much (or at all) about how rough they have it.

The problem with turning back the clock is we tend to forget the bad bits and fail to see the good parts of right now. It is part of human nature strive for better but we are blessed with memories so we can hold onto the good parts of the past. We may fail at times but I think we are getting better all the time.

District_History_Fan wrote in post #9608059
Arguing with someone like you who has bought into a bucket of lies is a waste of time. Go on believing the degredation of today is utopia (pssst... look around you in Detroit :rolleyes. Have a great day.

I think I just heard a door slam shut....

Your user name is quite ironic though.

So what? You are arguing whether the US postwar boom was justified or not. This has nothing to do with what I was stating.

I was simply pointing out that the reason the US economy was growing so much faster in the 1950 than in the 2000's was because the rest of the world had essentially been knocked flat.

blackhawk wrote in post #9608149
Not saying it was all good. No EPA (good), and if you were smart, worked hard, you would do good and live well.

I'm only 30, but so far this has definitely been true for nearly everyone I know. Work hard, keep at it and you'll do fine. Sure some people have bad luck and down times along the way, but that happened in the 50s, too. My mom was a child of the 50s and she has memories of eating only bread and milk for dinner during some lean months. Her father was a well educated man (master's degree) but still had some hard times getting his business going.

I think people have a tendency to romanticize the past. But if you look at the living standard of the middle class in the 50s, we could easily have that today on the average income in the US. The average house was under 1500 sq ft with no garage. Most people had only one car and it didn't even have seatbelts, much less side-curtain airbags. Nobody had piles of electronic gadgets nor multiple tvs with 500 channels. Kids shared bedrooms and wore hand-me-down clothes.

So give up all the expensive conveniences of the 2000s and you can be living very well by 1950 standards.

tkbslc wrote in post #9608320
I'm only 30, but so far this has definitely been true for nearly everyone I know. Work hard, keep at it and you'll do fine. Sure some people have bad luck and down times along the way, but that happened in the 50s, too. My mom was a child of the 50s and she has memories of eating only bread and milk for dinner during some lean months. Her father was a well educated man (master's degree) but still had some hard times getting his business going.

I think people have a tendency to romanticize the past. But if you look at the living standard of the middle class in the 50s, we could easily have that today on the average income in the US. The average house was under 1500 sq ft with no garage. Most people had only one car and it didn't even have seatbelts, much less side-curtain airbags. Nobody had piles of electronic gadgets nor multiple tvs with 500 channels. Kids shared bedrooms and wore hand-me-down clothes.

So give up all the expensive conveniences of the 2000s and you can be living very well by 1950 standards.

No, you don't understand.
You don't need all this junk, and at the same time there is no quiet time, no peace of mind.
Not only do men work more, so do women, as their kids roam the streets and cyber alleys. swell.
The total for two days in the hospital in 1957 for a normal child delivery was $112! That was doctors, supplies... everything.

I've know one man that started as a welders apprentice in 1930, today he's the VP of that ship building company. No college, just skill, hard work, and opportunity.
He pities today's kids because this is no longer possible.

blackhawk wrote in post #9608638
No, you don't understand.
You don't need all this junk, and at the same time there is no quiet time, no peace of mind.
Not only do men work more, so do women, as their kids roam the streets and cyber alleys. swell.
The total for two days in the hospital in 1957 for a normal child delivery was $112! That was doctors, supplies... everything.

I've know one man that started as a welders apprentice in 1930, today he's the VP of that ship building company. No college, just skill, hard work, and opportunity.
He pities today's kids because this is no longer possible.

The people who have no peace do so mostly by choice, Sure some are working 2-3 jobs between both parent just to meet basic needs, but there was a pretty large low-income class in the 50s as well. If you are willing to forgo the large house, multiple new cars, all the luxuries we call necessities, you can do nicely on one average income. Certainly I am ahead of where my grandpa was in the 50s and where my parents were in the early 80s.

My Grandpa made 85 cents an hour at his first architecture job and holding a master's degree - back in the mid 50s. So what if the baby delivery cost $112, it was still a months pay for someone with an average salary. While health cost have gotten ridiculous, that is only one part of the equation, and the health care we have is better than it was in the 50s. No you didn't end up with 100k dollar cancer treatment bills, because there was no cancer treatment. You just died.

I disagree that the welder's apprentice story is not an option. Even at my work, there is a guy that is director of a department making 6 figures who started out in the mailroom in the 80s making minimum wage. I've moved up and doubled my salary in the 8 years since I started working at my job. I have a friend at another company who worked hard and was promoted to a leadership position for almost 3 times his starting salary. I am sorry you are so cynical, but those of us with some optimism work hard and seem to be getting ahead.