Why shoot in RAW?

rickdog wrote in post #9621283
i mean, we could go on forever on this, but who cares? i say play with both, learn both and figure out what you need as a photographer.

thanks for the discussion!

I agree and enjoyed it.

20droger wrote in post #9617705
What has been said before is true. The camera takes a RAW image. If you keep it RAW, you make all the decisions on how to process the picture. If you set the camera to JPEG, then the camera makes the decisions for you.

I don't get this. I decide what the settings are in my camera, so when I shoot jpeg I decide, not the camera.

YankeeMom wrote in post #9621815
I don't get this. I decide what the settings are in my camera, so when I shoot jpeg I decide, not the camera.

This is what that means:

egordon99 wrote in post #9595077
First off, your camera ONLY shoots RAW. When you select JPG, the camera takes the RAW data and pipes it into its on-board JPG processor to generate the JPG "image" to save to the card.

When you shoot RAW, the RAW "data" goes directly to the card and is not an image.

To generate an image, you use a RAW processor (software on your PC) which turns the data into a viewable image, much like the camera's JPG processor. The difference is that YOU have complete control over the image generation process. You can change the white balance, adjust the contrast/brightness/bl​ack point/etc....

So you can leave these decisions up to the camera's little processor (and hope it makes the right decisions since they are irreversible), or save the decisions for later where YOU have complete control over it.

20droger wrote in post #9619356
Seems like I've heard you say this before. You must have one hell of a sticky monitor.

Perhaps you should stop eating soup while perusing POTN.

Then again, you could've been eating porridge....

It is because I browse POTN while eating lunch at work. I should know better by now though!

YankeeMom wrote in post #9621815
I don't get this. I decide what the settings are in my camera, so when I shoot jpeg I decide, not the camera.

You may decide the settings on the camera (WB, shutterspeed,aperture) but you are not deciding how it is processed or what information is thrown away when it is converted to a Jpeg in camera. That can only be done with RAW.

dugcross wrote in post #9621876
This is what that means:

OK, but when you process your RAW in DPP or whatever, you are doing the same thing -- turning into a jpeg.

YankeeMom wrote in post #9622321
OK, but when you process your RAW in DPP or whatever, you are doing the same thing -- turning into a jpeg.

Your missing the point. It doesn't matter how you save it after you process it, wether to jpeg, tiff, psd or whatever. If you take a photo and have the camera save it to jpeg then the camera has already done the processing for you. To have full control over the processing it's best to shoot RAW, you will be doing all of the processing. Below is part of a post that I posted earlier that hopefully will help in understanding:

"Either way I think it comes down to knowledge on RAW vs JPEG. If you have the knowledge of post processing then chances are you shoot RAW. If you're not that knowledgeable on post-processing then chances are you shoot JPEG. I never have and never will shoot JPEG. I personally have the knowledge and I would rather control the total outcome of the photo as opposed to the camera doing it for me. An speed or file size has never been an issue with me either. Get a big enough and fast enough memory card and your set.

Another analogy, JPEG is when you took your film to the local drug store or whatever and let them develop your film and you got the resulting photos that they gave you. You either liked them or not and that was it. RAW is when you developed your own film and in the darkroom you burned, dodged and used other various techniques and got the photo result that you wanted."

YankeeMom wrote in post #9622321
OK, but when you process your RAW in DPP or whatever, you are doing the same thing -- turning into a jpeg.

Yes but by processing the RAW in DPP etc, we are able to make the creative choices as to how the image is developed.
There are only so many ways to process a jpeg in camera (picture styles) and you have to decide beforehand how you want it too look eg B&W however this becomes virtually unlimited when developing RAW as you can shoot a RAW and transform it to B&W, Sepia, Cross processed, high contrast, low contrast etc. All without any loss of IQ.

Well, I am new at RAW and post-processing, but I am trying to figure it all out. I have been working on DPP for a few weeks now and, slowly, getting the hang of it. I notice that many of the functions are the same as what you can set in the camera. I understand that you can make changes should you make a mistake with exposure or WB.

I just don't understand how it is different to set the WB in my camera vs the same WB in DPP. I don't understand how somone can say that is the camera "making the decision for you."

The difference is that , with Jpeg, once the WB is set in camera it is fixed and cant be altered without altering the image quality. Think of it as a filter applied to the camera before the shot is taken. It is fixed.

With RAW, the WB is a setting applied to the image after capture and can be altered in DPP without altering the image. Think of it as a filter applied afterwards. It can be swapped for any other type of filter (cloudy, tungsten etc) because it is not part of the image itself.

YankeeMom wrote in post #9622435
I just don't understand how it is different to set the WB in my camera vs the same WB in DPP. I don't understand how somone can say that is the camera "making the decision for you."

See the chart below. When you set your camera to one of those basic zones, you're telling your camera what kind of photo you're trying to take, either close-up, sport, portrait and so on. At this point the camera does the work for you with the shutter, aperture and so on, it is also developing that photo to a jpg using that choice. Everything is being done by the camera, it is making the processing decisions for you. You have no control other then selecting what kind of photo. If you notice that when you set it for RAW you don't have the choice of setting it to a basic zone, because the camera is letting you make the decisions on the processing of the RAW file. Basically set it to JPEG the camera is making the decisions on processing for you, set it to RAW it will leave the processing decisions to you.

As for the white balance, yes you should set that on your camera yourself. The basic point is that once you do and you shoot jpg and realize you set the WB wrong, well you're stuck with what you got because you let your camera make the decisions for you on processing the jpg. Now if you had shot a RAW file then you can change the WB yourself in post-processing because the camera did not do any of this for you. Once a camera makes a jpg file it throws all of the extra info out hence the smaller files, a RAW file retains ALL the info so you can process it yourself

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

YankeeMom wrote in post #9622435
I just don't understand how it is different to set the WB in my camera vs the same WB in DPP. I don't understand how somone can say that is the camera "making the decision for you."

If you set it the same, there is no difference. The power of Raw is that you can set it to the same as you would get from the camera, or you can set it to something different, and anything in between. The same is true of all the in camera settings. You can do the same as the camera would if you want, but you can do things the camera cannot do, and you can choose to do so AFTER you have made the shot. You can even create multiple examples of the same image with different settings.

THAT is the power of Raw. Choice.

neilwood32 wrote in post #9622453
The difference is that , with Jpeg, once the WB is set in camera it is fixed and cant be altered without altering the image quality. Think of it as a filter applied to the camera before the shot is taken. It is fixed.

With RAW, the WB is a setting applied to the image after capture and can be altered in DPP without altering the image. Think of it as a filter applied afterwards. It can be swapped for any other type of filter (cloudy, tungsten etc) because it is not part of the image itself.

I do understand that. But if you don't need to change it, it's pretty much the same, right?

dugcross wrote in post #9622558
See the chart below. When you set your camera to one of those basic zones, you're telling your camera what kind of photo you're trying to take, either close-up, sport, portrait and so on. At this point the camera does the work for you with the shutter, aperture and so on, it is also developing that photo to a jpg using that choice. Everything is being done by the camera, it is making the processing decisions for you. You have no control other then selecting what kind of photo. If you notice that when you set it for RAW you don't have the choice of setting it to a basic zone, because the camera is letting you make the decisions on the processing of the RAW file. Basically set it to JPEG the camera is making the decisions on processing for you, set it to RAW it will leave the processing decisions to you.

As for the white balance, yes you should set that on your camera yourself. The basic point is that once you do and you shoot jpg and realize you set the WB wrong, well you're stuck with what you got because you let your camera make the decisions for you on processing the jpg. Now if you had shot a RAW file then you can change the WB yourself in post-processing because the camera did not do any of this for you. Once a camera makes a jpg file it throws all of the extra info out hence the smaller files, a RAW file retains ALL the info so you can process it yourself

OK, but I don't use the basic zones. All I'm saying is that if I choose the correct WB on my camera, it's no different than choosing it in DPP. And because I am choosing, the camera is NOT. It's just taking orders.

YankeeMom wrote in post #9622604
OK, but I don't use the basic zones. All I'm saying is that if I choose the correct WB on my camera, it's no different than choosing it in DPP. And because I am choosing, the camera is NOT. It's just taking orders.

Yes, you are correct on that. But I was referring more the the processing of the files, take a jpeg, your camera makes the decisions on processing that file, take a raw, you camera does not process that at all, you do it. I used this analogy earlier to try to explain it:

A JPEG is when you took your film to the local drug store or whatever and let them develop your film and you got the resulting photos that they gave you. You either liked them or not and that was it, you were stuck with it. RAW is when you developed your own film and in your own darkroom where you burned, dodged and used other various techniques and got the photo result that you wanted to your liking.

rickdog wrote in post #9620120
wait a second, let's get this straight. i don't think the camera "knows" anything. i tell it what to do whether it's raw or jpeg!

nonetheless, whether the pic comes out right or not is my fault not the camera's...

You're correct; the camera "knows" nothing. The camera has a processor, making it nothing more than a computer. Yes, it's a computer that can capture images, but a computer nonetheless.

And one of the most basic definitions of a computer is: a device to which you give careful and detailed instructions, then sit back in horror as it does what you said, not what you want.