Girls HS BB---C & C

Oh you're killin' me here Phil. I'd like to blame it on lack of enough lights but we know better. I also look at may available light posts here and say 'maybe it's not worth dragging the lights out', but there is just no comparison. You really have your set-up and methods down. Something to aspire to.

MT Stringer wrote in post #9621535
Good job, Phil. I noticed the strobe on the right is in the corner and the one on the left is mounted on a hand rail and doesn't get any bounce off the wall. Does that throw your light off making it uneven? I have had a few struggles with that exact set up.

Thanks for sharing your photos and set up.
Mike

Mike,

Uneven light is usually the result of poor aim on my part. The leaked light off the wall has little to no effect since I'm aiming away from the wall and the vast majority of the light is heading in the other direction. The thing I picked up from Keven is to aim the lights, test the light levels with a meter on the court, and them re-aim if necessary. I can usually get the levels even within 1/3 stop using a light meter. Sekonic L-358 with the transmitter is a sweet way to go. Measure the light across the court, set the camera, verify settings by taking a shot and chimping the skin tones. Fast, easy, accurate, and of course a few $$$ more.

Thanks for the kind words guys.


Phil

One more thing, when I started, 2 1/2 years ago, I began with a 30D and a 70-200 f/2.8 IS lens. The images were never close to the results obtained by Dennis, Kevin, or any of the really good shooters. Upgrades to the 85mm f/1.8 followed in order to lower ISO and gain SS. Then a 1D Mark III was purchased to get better IQ, more fps, and improved higher ISO capability. Got an expo disk and then began shooting white balance on grey or white cards. Shot it RAW to try and get better colors. Also added noise reduction and improved software. It all helped a bit and doing that taught me a lot but it still didn't result in the quality of the top shooters. Then one day I shot an away game at a new gym that had double the ambient light levels of my home gym. It had both florescent and bulb lighting--lots of it. Presto! One year after I had started, I finally got some pics that convinced me that yes, even I could take quality images that someone else would like and would hold up to critique at POTN. Until then, it seemed my images were never going to be even mediocre. It was all about quality light. Shooting ambient is wonderful if the light is there. If not, it must be obtained with speedlights or strobes. A proper photography education must include the techniques for using both as the situation demands. It's great to shoot in a venue with light of high quality and quantity. Leave the lights at home and fire away at high fps. What a joy to shoot at an arena where they have bright lights for TV. My favorite volleyball images were shot ambient at such an arena. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is at the local middle and high schools. The cruel truth is that the starting photog needs the most help in poorly lit MS and HS gyms and they are least likely to have the tools (lens, camera body, lights) to do it. The wonderful new camera bodies with incredible high ISO performance will help but will never be the total answer to the need for quality light.

Phil

PS. With the strobes and a white ceiling, these images were shot jpeg and AWB. Easy.

Zivnuska wrote in post #9626064
One more thing, when I started, 2 1/2 years ago, I began with a 30D and a 70-200 f/2.8 IS lens. The images were never close to the results obtained by Dennis, Kevin, or any of the really good shooters. Upgrades to the 85mm f/1.8 followed in order to lower ISO and gain SS. Then a 1D Mark III was purchased to get better IQ, more fps, and improved higher ISO capability. Got an expo disk and then began shooting white balance on grey or white cards. Shot it RAW to try and get better colors. Also added noise reduction and improved software. It all helped a bit and doing that taught me a lot but it still didn't result in the quality of the top shooters. Then one day I shot an away game at a new gym that had double the ambient light levels of my home gym. It had both florescent and bulb lighting--lots of it. Presto! One year after I had started, I finally got some pics that convinced me that yes, even I could take quality images that someone else would like and would hold up to critique at POTN. Until then, it seemed my images were never going to be even mediocre. It was all about quality light. Shooting ambient is wonderful if the light is there. If not, it must be obtained with speedlights or strobes. A proper photography education must include the techniques for using both as the situation demands. It's great to shoot in a venue with light of high quality and quantity. Leave the lights at home and fire away at high fps. What a joy to shoot at an arena where they have bright lights for TV. My favorite volleyball images were shot ambient at such an arena. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is at the local middle and high schools. The cruel truth is that the starting photog needs the most help in poorly lit MS and HS gyms and they are least likely to have the tools (lens, camera body, lights) to do it. The wonderful new camera bodies with incredible high ISO performance will help but will never be the total answer to the need for quality light.

Phil

Phil,

Very nice little essay on the normal progression of a sports shooter, I find myself somewhere in the middle. It is a shame (as you point out) that most novices are in the venues with the poorest light.

Very nice series of pic's at the start of the thread. Great job, as usual.

Jeff

Numer 5 is nice.
The anticipation is killing me tho.

Do you have a follow up picture I need to know who got the rebound.

deadprez wrote in post #9626397
Numer 5 is nice.
The anticipation is killing me tho.

Do you have a follow up picture I need to know who got the rebound.

I think the free throw was made, so no one got it!

BTW, that shot is easy to get (they are all relatively still on a free throw) and one that parents often like. If you choose, wait a fraction of a second later on a missed attempt and it is hard to tell it is off a free throw.

Hi. I was interested in your set up and the results. Wow! There's such a huge difference in halls between the US and the UK. I've shot some of a local bb team on the outskirts of London - size of the hall is nowhere like your HS. My local one has no spectator seats, just solid walls, so there's about a foot between the wall and the pitch. The floor isn't anywhere as polished and the lighting is pretty poor. I have absolutely nowhere to put any lights - they'd get trashed. Can't hang anything from the basket - its a solid wood back and its fixed in position. I am very envious of you guys with such quality gyms to work with.

Thanks for the write up, Phil. I am set up and ready to start the tournament tomorrow. I will get 20 games before it is all over with.

This gym is a college gym, and although it is a small school, the lights are pretty good. I was tinkering with ambient and got f/3.2 @ ISO 2000. I stopped counting the lights at 48.

I have the strobes wet up and a 580 EX II at mid court (top of the bleacher hand railing) aimed at the ceiling and set at 1/2 power. It provides enough power to light up the far end of the court a little better than the Bees, so I plan to shoot some with the Sigma 120-300 until the batteries run down. I have enough AA's in two battery packs and 8 individual to run through two complete cycles. I'll see how things are going tomorrow and decide whether or not to continue as the playoffs narrow the teams. In my test shots, the speedlight didn't spill over into my shots from the baseline (while sitting on the floor and aimed at that side of the court.

ISO 320, f/3.5, 1/200 sec. I wish I had anudder cybersync, 'cause I have a 540EZ I could set up on the opposite side of the court from the 580.
Suddenly, I am not sleepy!

Zivnuska wrote in post #9626498
BTW, that shot is easy to get (they are all relatively still on a free throw) and one that parents often like. If you choose, wait a fraction of a second later on a missed attempt and it is hard to tell it is off a free throw.

That's one of my standard shots these days. The only problem I run into is people buying the shot when their kid isn't in focus (was focusing on a different player). For this reason, I will usually shoot tight on one player and make sure that there isn't another player with more than half of their face in the shot.

Nice work Phil!