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Thread started 25 Feb 2010 (Thursday) 08:52
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Copyright? Nah.

 
dkspook
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Feb 25, 2010 08:52 |  #1

IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3912571501_ff856dc94f.jpg

IMAGE: http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/2.5/dk/88x31.png
This work by Søren Siim Nielsen (external link) is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.5 Denmark License (external link). Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available at http://www.bagkameraet​.dk (external link).


Alright, slapping on a big ol' © might be easier, but sometimes the easiest solution is not the right solution. And sometimes we do stuff without really giving that much thought to what we did and why. Go get coffee, this rant is gonna be a long one.

As photographers, we produce images. We produce a lot of them, actually. Some of them are made because the sunset was too pretty to resist, some of them are made because a happy couple paid us to cover their wedding and give them beautiful images to remember their beautiful day. But today, images aren't tucked away in albums on a shelf, they get sent around the world via e-mail and shared with, literally, the entire world over the internet. So now, people can STEAL THEM! *gasp*! And SELL THEM! AND MAKE MONEY THAT WE SHOULD HAVE MADE! So to protect our images, we cover them with hideous watermarks, hide them in flash presentations and generally plaster ©s all over the place. I did the watermarking myself for a while but I got annoyed with it, it distracted from the image. I did it to get som sorta "branding" thing going, but I didn't follow it through. I only used the logo on my images and as my avatar here on POTN.

Most other shooters use the watermarks as copy protection, so that no one can steal the images and sell them off as their own. If you put a subtle watermark in one of the corners of the image, to avoid it distracting the viewer from the image itself, it's easily removed by the image-stealing nigerian mafia pirate. So you get real high-tech, and us flash to show your images instead of just plain posting them. One push on the "Print screen" button, and the crook has your image. But you have one more trick up your sleeve... you cover all your images in HUGE, semi-transparent watermarks that will take HOURS to remove in Photoshop. Now nobody will steal your images. Because now they look like crap, or at best, something that was probably nice, but now covered in watermarks. And not only do they look like crap to the crooks, they look like crap to your customers. You spent a lot of time on that shot, why ruin it with a watermark that will either be ineffective or ruin the shot? Yeah, I quit using watermarks myself, but the choice is yours.

I have pretty much everything from snapshots of my own snotty kids to excerpts from wedding shoots like the one above on my flickr. Yesterday, I changed the permissions on every single one of them (they have a batch job for it, don't worry) from the usual "All rights reserved" to Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.5 (external link). That basically means that you are free to use my images in any way you see fit as long as A) it's non-commercial and B) I get credit for the image. You can even use the image in your own works, as long as you share them under similar terms and credit me for the original image. All that, without worrying that I will hunt you down with a pack of rabid lawyers and demand that you pay me an amount suspiciously close to the price of a complete L lineup. I'll only do that if you claim the image is your own or use it in an ad.

But NO! I must be joking? That will destroy my business and maybe even the entire industry! Nope, sorry to disappoint you. I'm pretty sure that the only ones that will pay for non-commercial uses of shots like the one at the top of this post are the people IN the shot. And they already paid. So why should I threaten anyone looking at the image that I will cut off their arms if they as much as e-mail the image to their friends? It's a different story with stock photography, but I hope you only upload those shots to your agency and not forums, flickr, etc. I post my images on the net to get exposure, to make people see the images. Why would I release them under a license that severely hinders the sharing and flow of information that the internet is so good at? In stead, I have actively chosen a license that lets people use my images as much as they like, as long as they tell other people where they got them. That way, I get more exposure (at least in theory) and I don't have spend tons of money feeding and grooming the pack of rabid lawyers.

If you have read this far, I hope (and think) that you will at least think about what license you choose to release your images under. Think about what is best for you and your business and how you can get the most from your web presence. Think of your images like business cards. Would you print a line at the bottom of your cards that said "DO NOT PASS ALONG TO FRIENDS!"?

Sorry for the long rant, but that's how I see it. You may have another opinion, feel free to sound off - after all, that's why it's called a forum :)

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Mark1
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Feb 25, 2010 09:31 |  #2

Im not sure I get your point......


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cdifoto
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Feb 25, 2010 09:39 |  #3

I see OP's point but it's rather broad brush he's using and it makes quite a few assumptions.


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SwitchBlade
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Feb 25, 2010 09:50 |  #4

The problem I see is that most people don't care about copyright when stealing images and many don't know that what they are doing is wrong. Using a creative commons license is only useful when the people likely to take the image know or care about cc licensing.


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AxxisPhoto
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Feb 25, 2010 09:54 |  #5

I see your point, but unfortunately SwitchBlade is right. If someone wants to take your image, they will. The only way to avoid this is to not put up images at all.


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WaltA
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Feb 25, 2010 10:00 |  #6

If I read you right, this is basically what happened to software in the 70's. The hackers who were writing software for the Altair and other minicomputers decided that if you wanted the software and weren't going to sell it that you could have it free. And you could share it with all your friends as well.

That worked well for 20 years in the software industry but became shareware and then crippleware and now is demoware. The final result of that experiment seems to be OpenSource software which I think is still fairly successful. There are some OpenSource packages that give big-money applications suites a run for their money.

Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box - not sure how well it will work in todays internet age but it will be interesting to see the results.


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RDKirk
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Mar 02, 2010 12:47 as a reply to  @ WaltA's post |  #7

But NO! I must be joking? That will destroy my business and maybe even the entire industry! Nope, sorry to disappoint you. I'm pretty sure that the only ones that will pay for non-commercial uses of shots like the one at the top of this post are the people IN the shot. And they already paid. So why should I threaten anyone looking at the image that I will cut off their arms if they as much as e-mail the image to their friends? It's a different story with stock photography, but I hope you only upload those shots to your agency and not forums, flickr, etc. I post my images on the net to get exposure, to make people see the images. Why would I release them under a license that severely hinders the sharing and flow of information that the internet is so good at? In stead, I have actively chosen a license that lets people use my images as much as they like, as long as they tell other people where they got them. That way, I get more exposure (at least in theory) and I don't have spend tons of money feeding and grooming the pack of rabid lawyers.

I don't see a practical impact. If you don't intend to pursue a copyright infringement, then you simply don't pursue it. You are already free to pick and choose which infringers you pursue--you are free to pursue the commercial infringer and not pursue the non-commercial infringer. Copyright is not like trademark in that respect--you don't lose the right to pursue the second infringer because you failed to pursue the first.

As has been mentioned, creative commons only signals to those who know and care that they can use the work in certain ways without worrying about getting a letter from your lawyers. I guess that's a good thing if you want people to know that your work is "licensed to the world for non-commercial" But that is the only point to it that I can see, and it doesn't solve any problems otherwise.


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HappySnapper90
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Mar 03, 2010 07:47 |  #8

dkspook wrote in post #9679668 (external link)
But NO! I must be joking? That will destroy my business and maybe even the entire industry! Nope, sorry to disappoint you. I'm pretty sure that the only ones that will pay for non-commercial uses of shots like the one at the top of this post are the people IN the shot. And they already paid.

So feel that any website should be able to steal that photo and use it for their own uses? To promote themselves with a stolen photo, or promote weddings with your photo without you being paid for that usage? If you think a photo can possibly be used only by its initial intended use, then you are very wrong! By your "logic", once someone pays to use a license to use a software program anyone should be allowed to install it on their computers from the same CD because the manufacturer has already been paid! :lol:

And your photo: not that great. I'm more distracted by that out of focus branch in front of them which just is not out of focus enough. The image lacks any emotional feel and the couple is represented too small in this photo IMHO.




  
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20droger
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Mar 03, 2010 10:19 as a reply to  @ HappySnapper90's post |  #9

A copyright is like a padlock on a shed; it serves to keep honest people honest, but doesn't do a thing to stop dishonest people.

What you are proposing is replacing the padlock with a "Keep Out" sign.




  
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RDKirk
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Mar 03, 2010 12:23 |  #10

20droger wrote in post #9720429 (external link)
A copyright is like a padlock on a shed; it serves to keep honest people honest, but doesn't do a thing to stop dishonest people.

What you are proposing is replacing the padlock with a "Keep Out" sign.

What he's talking about is a sign that says, "Enter...but only if your intentions are honorable." That's the essence of the Creative Commons license.


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MJBCreative
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Mar 03, 2010 17:32 as a reply to  @ RDKirk's post |  #11

Are you kidding me?? You really think people are that honest to give credit to the photographer if they use an image they like? HELL NO. I've seen too many photographers have their images stolen by other "photographers" to be used as their own work...way too many. There's no way I'd ever just "let people use my work as long as they give me credit". I don't like huge watermarks either but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your work if it's going to be out on the web.


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WaltA
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Mar 03, 2010 18:01 |  #12

Well, if I can follow on with my earlier comparison to early Shareware - in the software industry that I'm familiar with. Building shareware in the 80's was based on that statistic that says that 300 thieves will use your software illegally for their basement projects that have next to no net worth.

Then 3 large multi-national corporations will buy it and pay you 3.5 Million dollars.

Did you really need the aggrevation of dealing with the 300 thieves? Depends on whether you're willing to play the odds.

BTW - I'm just making these numbers up to make my point.


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WaltA
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Mar 03, 2010 18:04 |  #13

I see the OP is not saying anything.

??


Walt
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Joelene
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Mar 03, 2010 19:06 |  #14

I think you are all right.

[U]I see the OP read the keep out sign?[/U

I agree with pretty much all of you here! On my blog, (not flash) i do have my logo and name across the bottom of every image, same with all on fb and flickr. But it is "cropbable' and can be removed easy enough, i have seen it a hundred times on FB! Oh well, if they are good / great clients they will pass my name around and tell everyone that matters who took the shot...

If someone wants to use my image for commercial use, chances are they will need a much bigger copy, not tiny little "saved for web" version with my logo cropped out and they will contact me.

IF i go out and see my image on a billboard, without my permission... FIRST thing I will do is take a picture, and show EVERYONE I CAN!! THEN I will contact who ever raised said billboard and ask where they got the image.. and see where it goes from there... will it be a law suit? or will it be an ignorant intern who doesn't know any better? OR, and i might be overly hopeful here, will they be a new commercial client that pays me bazillions of dollars to take more pictures for them?

I want my images to be emailed to everyone , like the OP said, but after the fifth or sixth email sent out, from client, to sister, to auntie, to her neighbor, to the neighbors sister, to her boss, ect... some where in that list of emails, my name slipped AAAAAAALL the way down to the bottom row!! But if my logo and name is on it.. that won't matter now will it??

I think I will go into my flickr account and change all the images to that Creative Commons licence that the op mentioned... Why? Because I personally know companies that have searched on flickr for images under the CC. I have sent companies there to see if they can find what they are looking for if I was unable to provide it. SO, maybe more of my work will get noticed that way?... who knows? I don't think it will make my images any MORE or even LESS noticeable, ..I am hoping for more... but if not then... honestly, who cares? You can only protect yourself so much without going insane in this digital world that we live in.

I think if you protect yourself the best way you know how, and are realistic on the measures you need to take to do so, and are realistic on what is REALLY going on, then you wont' have a major heart attack before the age of 42.


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