Ready to learn the Wedding Game -- Need Thoughts from the Pros

Ready to dip my toe in the wedding pool.

Figured step one is to get some experience as a second shooter / assistant.

Question is -- what are the seasoned pros looking for in a second shooter?

Specific questions:

What do you expect in gear?
What sort of compensation is fair?
Do you typically allow the shooter to use the images for marketing purposes?

Any other advise you can offer is appreciated.

Thank you!

mattograph wrote in post #9790625
Ready to dip my toe in the wedding pool. Figured step one is to get some experience as a second shooter / assistant.

I hope you're young.

Seriously, there are 1000 wannabes for every photographer out there trying to do this. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, just be prepared for the runaround.

Unless you're totally clueless and have enough confidence in your skills I would spend a ton of time researching everything and start offering to do weddings for free to those couples that would never hire somebody else otherwise.

Just the usual stuff... long hours, a strong back, low pay, non-compete agreements, your first born child... etc.

Again, unless you miraculously manage to hook up with some famous mentor in the industry (ha ha) you'll just end up learning from somebody mediocre. May as well bypass all this, make your mistakes and get on with it on your own terms.

RT McAllister wrote in post #9791013
I hope you're young.

Seriously, there are 1000 wannabes for every photographer out there trying to do this. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, just be prepared for the runaround.

Unless you're totally clueless and have enough confidence in your skills I would spend a ton of time researching everything and start offering to do weddings for free to those couples that would never hire somebody else otherwise.

Just the usual stuff... long hours, a strong back, low pay, non-compete agreements, your first born child... etc.

Again, unless you miraculously manage to hook up with some famous mentor in the industry (ha ha) you'll just end up learning from somebody mediocre. May as well bypass all this, make your mistakes and get on with it on your own terms.

Not young enough.

I haven't had a shortage of folks asking me to shoot their weddings, but I have referred them all to competent pros to this point. Most people want me to do it on the cheap or free since I have never shot a wedding.

I'm old enough to know not to do anything for free.

But I would work cheap. $10 an hour, if I could keep use of the images I make for a future portfolio would work for me.

I don't use a 2nd shooter, but I have an assistant who takes photos sometimes. I provide the gear. If I hired a second shooter then i'd want them to have a camera with good iso performance, and a decent lens or two.

Until you've proven yourself you probably won't get paid.

I allow my assistant to use photos she takes in a printed portfolio, but not online or in competitions. If she asked i'd probably reconsider though, but since she doesn't take photos during the portrait time there's not a lot that's portfolio worthy. There's no need for two photographers during that part of the day IMHO.

I was lucky enough to start out my career shooting for Glen Johnson (www.aperturephotograph​ics.com), whose Wedding Photography book has just passed the 50,000 mark on Amazon, and he was invaluable in showing me everything I needed to get started. Not only did he never make me sign a non-compete clause, he went so far as to recommend me whenever he was overbooked.
If I were to hire a 2nd shooter (which I've been trying to do for two years now!), I would probably draw up a non-compete clause and tell them their first gig with me would have to be for little or no pay, just to see if it would be worth all my extra time (someone has to go through and edit all those extra photos). As for gear, any pro-sumer body (Canon 7D, 40D, etc) and lenses would be fine. Knowledge of speedlites would be a definite plus and knowledge of OCF would almost cinch the deal right there! I see you live in Lou-a-ville, so I guess I can't hire you, but good luck!

tim wrote in post #9791209
I don't use a 2nd shooter, but I have an assistant who takes photos sometimes. I provide the gear. If I hired a second shooter then i'd want them to have a camera with good iso performance, and a decent lens or two.

Until you've proven yourself you probably won't get paid.

I allow my assistant to use photos she takes in a printed portfolio, but not online or in competitions. If she asked i'd probably reconsider though, but since she doesn't take photos during the portrait time there's not a lot that's portfolio worthy. There's no need for two photographers during that part of the day IMHO.

Good points. Gear I got -- 5D2 + 1D3, L zooms from 16 - 200mm, seven speedlights. I use this stuff now for my freelance PJ and architectural work.

I probably wouldn't do it for free (no one appreciates free) but I would do it stupid cheap.

Its a good point that I would not expect to get a good shot at the "money" shots -- which might slow down my portfolio development.

PhotoMatte wrote in post #9791404
I was lucky enough to start out my career shooting for Glen Johnson (www.aperturephotograph​ics.com), whose Wedding Photography book has just passed the 50,000 mark on Amazon, and he was invaluable in showing me everything I needed to get started. Not only did he never make me sign a non-compete clause, he went so far as to recommend me whenever he was overbooked.
If I were to hire a 2nd shooter (which I've been trying to do for two years now!), I would probably draw up a non-compete clause and tell them their first gig with me would have to be for little or no pay, just to see if it would be worth all my extra time (someone has to go through and edit all those extra photos). As for gear, any pro-sumer body (Canon 7D, 40D, etc) and lenses would be fine. Knowledge of speedlites would be a definite plus and knowledge of OCF would almost cinch the deal right there! I see you live in Lou-a-ville, so I guess I can't hire you, but good luck!

Wish I was in Oregon!

Part of my desire to work with someone is to find out how prepared I really am. I might find out I'm more ready than I think.Although formals are definitely an anticipated weakness.

Your not far from me, I am about 30 miles north of you in Southern IN...
I just got started doing weddings...been shooting for about 4 years for fun and decided it was time to make it pay...I just done 2 for $200 plus cost of prints, gained valuable experience and figured out what I need to work on before I do anymore...good luck

As far as using your images (as a 2nd shooter) in order to market yourself, that can be tricky. If you were officially licensed to shoot for the primary and he/she/they had a model release from all the guests, you could probably get away with it. If your name wasn't part of any model release contract you could probably still get away with it (provided the primary shooter says it's okay), as long as you didn't post such images online. I ran into that same dilemma when I began and was lucky enough to have Glen say it was okay if I used my images in my own portfolio (like if I was personally showing them to someone, either as a slideshow on my Mac, in an album, or as prints). There were a few times when I'd be showing off my portfolio (when I began my solo career) and my potential clients would see someone they recognized and say, 'hey, I didn't know you shot so-and-so's wedding!' Then I'd have to explain that I was just starting out, and hope they still hired me!

PhotoMatte wrote in post #9791503
As far as using your images (as a 2nd shooter) in order to market yourself, that can be tricky. If you were officially licensed to shoot for the primary and he/she/they had a model release from all the guests, you could probably get away with it. If your name wasn't part of any model release contract you could probably still get away with it (provided the primary shooter says it's okay), as long as you didn't post such images online. I ran into that same dilemma when I began and was lucky enough to have Glen say it was okay if I used my images in my own portfolio (like if I was personally showing them to someone, either as a slideshow on my Mac, in an album, or as prints). There were a few times when I'd be showing off my portfolio (when I began my solo career) and my potential clients would see someone they recognized and say, 'hey, I didn't know you shot so-and-so's wedding!' Then I'd have to explain that I was just starting out, and hope they still hired me!

Very good points. I would most likely use these images in a one on one consultation -- not on the web for general consumption or facebook and the like. When it came time for websites and such, it would be with my officially established images.

bdpaco wrote in post #9791496
Your not far from me, I am about 30 miles north of you in Southern IN...
I just got started doing weddings...been shooting for about 4 years for fun and decided it was time to make it pay...I just done 2 for $200 plus cost of prints, gained valuable experience and figured out what I need to work on before I do anymore...good luck

Thank you -- and luck to you as well!

Good luck to you! I'm not sure if you're much of a reader but, if you are, you should definitely check out two books on wedding photography. Lol, I'm not sure of either book's title, but I can tell you the authors:
Glen Johnson and Neil van Niekerk

Lots of good info in there, both as to the style and the business aspects of wedding photography. Since it's still winter maybe you could peruse them before the wedding season really perks up.

PhotoMatte wrote in post #9791576
Good luck to you! I'm not sure if you're much of a reader but, if you are, you should definitely check out two books on wedding photography. Lol, I'm not sure of either book's title, but I can tell you the authors:
Glen Johnson and Neil van Niekerk

Lots of good info in there, both as to the style and the business aspects of wedding photography. Since it's still winter maybe you could peruse them before the wedding season really perks up.

I have Neils on camera flash book and read his blog daily -- or as he posts. I am somewhat embarrassed to admit I have never heard of Glen. Does he blog?

For me, there are 2nd shooters, and there are folks that want to tag along to learn about shooting weddings.

I offer a second shooter as an add-on to my existing packages. When clients purchase the add-on, I need to make sure I can provide someone who can get all of the shots for their "assignment" without me being there. Typically the 2nd shooter is covering the groom's prep, while I am covering the bridal prep. This means I need to hire a 2nd shooter that I can trust to deliver the goods. I pay more than most around here to make sure I can get an experienced wedding shooter as a 2nd.

For someone who is looking to learn about shooting a wedding, I'm more than happy to let them tag along, shoot with their gear, show them a few tricks that I've learned (as time allows) and use the images they capture in their portfolios. I do not send tag-a-long shooters off to capture something I have to deliver to clients. Since people are gaining experience at my paid event, and perhaps learning a few things from me, I'd consider the experience appropriate compensation. There are many wedding photographers out there that I would gladly carry bags for, just to get a glimpse of how they work, and consider myself well compensated.

Either way, I could care less about what gear a person brings. We all know that a bag full of L glass does not necessarily make someone a good photographer...any more than owning a Porsche makes someone a good driver .

The thing is, with the economy the way it is, I can put an ad out on a local wedding board, and have my pick of very experienced 2nd shooters. I'm not going to pay someone to learn at my expense. So my advice would be to find photographers in your area whose work you really admire, and offer to carry their bags a couple of weddings to get a bit of experience. Once you have some solid experience under your belt, you might have better luck getting paid gigs.

mattograph wrote in post #9791590
I have Neils on camera flash book and read his blog daily -- or as he posts. I am somewhat embarrassed to admit I have never heard of Glen. Does he blog?

You know, I don't know if he blogs; I'll have to ask him! His website is www.aperturephotograph​ics.com; perhaps he has a blog link on it? I haven't really looked at his site in a few months. He mastered the Google game and his international weddings took off so I don't see much of him anymore (neither he nor I utilize a 2nd shooter or assistant for international weddings).