Stupid Question: 580EX II off shoe vs Alien Bees B800

Siriusmuzik wrote in post #9796899
Hi there,

I'm wondering what the difference in power and capability is between the B800 and the 580EX II?

I only have $500 to spend for lighting, and was wondering if I should buy a 580EX II or just go with an B800.

Are they capable of making the same shots?

Stupid question, I know ...

Thanks

If its your first Off Camera lighting option, I agree with the others, the 580 EX speedlight is what I would get first...

Thanks everyone for their contribution. I ordered the 580EX II!

Siriusmuzik wrote in post #9822542
Thanks everyone for their contribution. I ordered the 580EX II!

Good deal, once you play with this one more and get used to it and understand it more, you can look at your Alien Bee addition, thats what I'm doing next. I got my 580EXII for Christmas, and I've been playing with it. I've finally bought Pocket Wizards (TT1 and TT5) so I can take the flash off camera, and now I'm investigating a light stand and softbox to purchase and use with the 580EXII...after I've played with that setup a bit, I can add an Alien Bee or another strobe type light kit till I eventually have a 3 light setup, thats my goal. The reason I'm telling you this is you seem to be in the same situation as I am/was and heading down similar paths I'm sharing my thoughts and why I'm buying what I'm buying when I am buying.

For all I know it could be a bad plan though.

I figure I should practice with a One Light setup and get good at it then I can move on to 2 or 3...?
http://www.onelightwor​kshop.com/

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #9822741
Good deal, once you play with this one more and get used to it and understand it more, you can look at your Alien Bee addition, thats what I'm doing next. I got my 580EXII for Christmas, and I've been playing with it. I've finally bought Pocket Wizards (TT1 and TT5) so I can take the flash off camera, and now I'm investigating a light stand and softbox to purchase and use with the 580EXII...after I've played with that setup a bit, I can add an Alien Bee or another strobe type light kit till I eventually have a 3 light setup, thats my goal. The reason I'm telling you this is you seem to be in the same situation as I am/was and heading down similar paths I'm sharing my thoughts and why I'm buying what I'm buying when I am buying.

For all I know it could be a bad plan though.

I figure I should practice with a One Light setup and get good at it then I can move on to 2 or 3...?
http://www.onelightwor​kshop.com/

If you are eventually planning to move up to strobes anyway, I wouldn't recommend investing in soft boxes etc. for the 580. A large shoot through umbrella gives you most of the lighting effect with less money and more convenience on the 580. Once you have a strobe, then investing in in a large softbox and all the other possible modifiers is a very worthwhile, and probably longer term investment. I still use my 580 alongside my AB's, but almost never with a modifier other than gels.

Stuart Leslie wrote in post #9834554
If you are eventually planning to move up to strobes anyway, I wouldn't recommend investing in soft boxes etc. for the 580. A large shoot through umbrella gives you most of the lighting effect with less money and more convenience on the 580. Once you have a strobe, then investing in in a large softbox and all the other possible modifiers is a very worthwhile, and probably longer term investment. I still use my 580 alongside my AB's, but almost never with a modifier other than gels.

But if I have a softbox for the 580EXII, can't I just use it with the strobe once I get one?

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #9835037
But if I have a softbox for the 580EXII, can't I just use it with the strobe once I get one?

If you get one the right size to work with a hotshoe flash its probably going to be too small to benefit a studio strobe, same thing in reverse. If you get one big enough for a strobe, its likely not to be very efficient with your hotshoe flash. Your best strategy is either to get the right tool for the light you are currently using, or as been suggested get the shoot through for the hotshoe and then invest in modifiers once you get the strobe you want.

gonzogolf wrote in post #9835203
If you get one the right size to work with a hotshoe flash its probably going to be too small to benefit a studio strobe, same thing in reverse. If you get one big enough for a strobe, its likely not to be very efficient with your hotshoe flash. Your best strategy is either to get the right tool for the light you are currently using, or as been suggested get the shoot through for the hotshoe and then invest in modifiers once you get the strobe you want.

I see, so what if my plan is to use a combo of one strobe and one speedlite? Would I not find a benefit in a speedlite with softbox in conjunction with one strobe and another softbox? I don't doubt the umbrella is a good and cheaper alternative, but it might be a while before I purchase the strobe and so I wanted to get a softbox with a diffusion layer and grid so I could then take some shots with the 3 different configs the softbox would give me. I kind of want to learn how to use softboxes, and I'm not sure I want or like the umbrellas. That is my thinking on the softbox anyway.

Then again, I don't even know what strobes I'll be investing in, ABs are popular, but not sure they are what I want. So many freaking options. And without ever seeing anything in person, its hard to make the best decisions from the internet research gathered...

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #9835257
I see, so what if my plan is to use a combo of one strobe and one speedlite? Would I not find a benefit in a speedlite with softbox in conjunction with one strobe and another softbox? I don't doubt the umbrella is a good and cheaper alternative, but it might be a while before I purchase the strobe and so I wanted to get a softbox with a diffusion layer and grid so I could then take some shots with the 3 different configs the softbox would give me. I kind of want to learn how to use softboxes, and I'm not sure I want or like the umbrellas. That is my thinking on the softbox anyway.

Then again, I don't even know what strobes I'll be investing in, ABs are popular, but not sure they are what I want.

I have to be honest, and others here may disagree but.... I dont see much of a future in combining the 580 and studio strobes. They will work together well enough in theory, but in practicality there is a fundamental mismatch. The 580 will be okay for a hair or background light, but the mismatch in power, lack of a modeling light, longer recycle times make it an ill fit. I understand that you are working to build a kit a bit at a time and I've been there myself. But you can shoot some great stuff with the umbrellas rather than dropping $150 in speedlite accessories when that puts you close to an AB or calumet genesis

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #9835257
....... I kind of want to learn how to use softboxes, and I'm not sure I want or like the umbrellas...

If you want to learn to use softboxes, I would just get an AB400 and a softbox or two and learn... My personal opinion is that the dramatic lighting effect from a softbox is acheived when they are quite large, something the 580 will probably not be very good for. The other benefit over a shoot through umbrella is you can control the light spill better. With that said, I still think there is a lot you can learn on a budget with an umbrella, and a range of lighting effects possible with light position, flash position in umbrella, bouncing, shooting through, feathering etc. Even with my Softbox, Beauty dish, grids etc. I still use umbrellas regularly too (they work even better with AB's )

Ok, I understand what you are saying and makes sense, I was thinking the 580EXII would be just a hair or background light anyway. I had envisioned two strobes on the side and the 580 for top/hair/background/ot​her fill in light...not being a major part of the light I guess, just a compliment of sorts.

So I started looking at studio strobe kits now, such as the ABs and these new Elinchrom D-Lite IT 200 and 400s...

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …ite_IT_400Ws_2_​Light.html

I'm reading through threads on some starter strobe kits, I would need/want a kit that includes most everything one needs to start; light stands, strobes, softbox or umbrella, etc...one thing I have to consider when I purchase my strobes are the fact I've already invested in Pocket Wizards, I have a TT1 and TT5, so I guess to wirelessly fire off the strobes, I'd want some that I can use the TT5's on and purchase a few more? The Calumet Genesis strobes are another option as well.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll try to start my own or chime in on another one to discuss a strobe setup.

For use as hairlight you probably wont need much in the way of modifiers although a homemade snoot might be a nice addition. I have alien bees, and I think they are a good inexpensive options, lots of power and good quality for the price point. I dont know anything about the D-Lites, and only a little about the genesis lights. I think if you limit yourself to looking at kits you may end up with a skewed sense of the value of things. There is no real magic in one brand of stand over another so look for a bargain there. As for softboxes there are some exceptional values on ebay in the visico brand and others that are much less expensive than those bundled with lights. I guess my point is that doing a bit of research and pricing things independently may save you money in the long run.

gonzogolf wrote in post #9836640
For use as hairlight you probably wont need much in the way of modifiers although a homemade snoot might be a nice addition. I have alien bees, and I think they are a good inexpensive options, lots of power and good quality for the price point. I dont know anything about the D-Lites, and only a little about the genesis lights. I think if you limit yourself to looking at kits you may end up with a skewed sense of the value of things. There is no real magic in one brand of stand over another so look for a bargain there. As for softboxes there are some exceptional values on ebay in the visico brand and others that are much less expensive than those bundled with lights. I guess my point is that doing a bit of research and pricing things independently may save you money in the long run.

Ok, well I'm not just looking at "kits", that was just one example. Is there a brand of strobe that has built in compatibility with Pocket Wizards? Or one that is popular in use with Pocket Wizards?

I don't know of any that have built in capability. most just have a plug. But if you are picking a light to match your triggers its sort of like picking your car to fit your tires.. Strobes just need a simple fire signal, nothing more. The new PW's are serious overkill in terms of syncing the strobes. I've read they can be used to do the hypersync trick with the alien bees, but I don't know much more beyond that. I have to say if I were in your shoes, I'd probably sell the PW set and get something simpler for use with the strobes like cybersyncs and apply the extra cash to more lights.

I agree that having a built in receiver is a dubious requirement. I doubt you will find it on entry level lights. Photogenic makes a few models. Here is a sample...
http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_Monolight_.htm​l#features

calumet travelites have an interchangeable 'card' system that has PW as an option...

http://www.calumetphot​o.com/item/CE1563/

A profoto model:
http://www.buzzillions​.com …t-in-pocketwizard-reviews

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I'm starting to question myself on my consideration of buying strobes right now, for the style and type of photography I'm wanting to do, or get into, or feel is my style, which is "lifestyle" photography, I don't think I'm going to be using a lot of self made lighting. At least thats not what the pictures I want to take use/need. I think I need to focus more on my 2nd and 3rd lenses and worry less about studio lighting right now. I might have jumped a head of myself with this research?

Again, based on what I interpret "lifestyle" photography to be, its more important I spend my budgeted money on a lens or two next, and worry less on the lighting right now. The type of pictures I envision myself taking are based more on natural light, natural settings, natural subjects doing natural things.

I will have to revisit these studio strobes when I start doing some studio type shots.