CAN I CALL MYSELF AN AMATEUR SHOOTER/PHOTOGRAPHER NOW?

nicksan wrote in post #9817720
Again, a "pro" implies making money. It's pretty cut and dry to me. I don't know why we are debating about this. Why are we so caught up in these terms anyways? Does that term have some kind of special meaning to you?

Simply put, someone retains your services for a price, you deliver and it doesn't have to be award winning photos as long as the client is happy, and you get paid. You are a pro. Simple, isn't it?

What about someone like me. I used to earn my living with my camera, got offered a more stable position and now just earn the odd dollar to pay for gear upkeep. Which pigeon hole do I fit in?

gonzogolf wrote in post #9819131
What about someone like me. I used to earn my living with my camera, got offered a more stable position and now just earn the odd dollar to pay for gear upkeep. Which pigeon hole do I fit in?

My point was why bother with labels?
The reason why I brought up the whole "pro" thing was that some people think there's a strong correlation with talent. Of course there's some in a sense that you have to offer something that someone desires, but it's not as strong as people think.

So again, pretty cut and dry. Making money = pro. Now you are free to figure out what "making money" means.

Just something I don't think about too often because it's kind of silly...

fly my pretties wrote in post #9818678
But in all seriousness, you are just arguing for the sake of it, aren't you?

Heh! I think everyone on this thread has either been doing that or grinding axes or whatever. The OP wasn't asking about what makes a pro, but I'd say more like "at what point to I progress from just a guy with a camera who takes snapshots to someone who is serious about photography, i.e. a photographer, albeit an amateur one?"...

Like has been said, such things are subjective and labels don't do much good. But it's true that some people who take pictures get, in time, an interest in taking good pictures, maybe meaningful pictures, but at any rate pictures that capture and express something of meaning to the person with the camera, i.e. the aspiring photographer.

Don't bring art into this except as a consideration of potential. One aspect of photography, but only one and not all-inclusive. For all the hours that I've spent tracking down wildlife, especially birds, to get a few cool shots, I don't feel artistic at all, but I feel like I'm capturing the "art of nature". Because I take that seriously, I figure it's safe to consider me an "amateur photographer". Note, though, that is not a demeaning term, like saying "he's just an amateur" -- as has been pointed out, many photographers who are not "pros" demonstrate outstanding work -- this forum are filled with photogs like that.

Also, an interesting note is that there are plenty of people who earn money taking pictures with whatever level of skill and gear they posess, but have a love for photography that is outside of their "business" and make no money outside of the business but love it just the same. Ya know what? Those people are amateurs when pursuing the passionate side of their photography even if they are "pros" on the business side.

But, truth be told, I wouldn't even be thinking about this except for the fact that someone on the InterWebs asked this question and a bunch of people began bickering...so we are all dorks!

(In Before The Lock...)

IMO, it completely boils down to how you view yourself and your work.

Those who want to be Pros, act like Pros whether you're making six figures a year at photography or only one figure. (Zero is a figure, right?)

fly my pretties wrote in post #9816286
Well, you are now differentiating between what you perceive as an artist and a good artist. There is a subjective line between the two, so for arguments sake, it's semantically correct to call anyone who undertakes any artform with any amount of verve, personality or personal expression as an artist. Just because you don't personally recognise someones work as decent doesn't automatically remove their right to define themselves as an artist, it just means you don't like their work.

Anyone who picks up a camera is an artist of sorts. Stop pretending your consumer product is so precious, it's just some glass and plastic. Photographers aren't part of an elite club.

i dont think its some elite club but why should it be a club easier to join than any other profession on the planet. who died and said art and/or photography was an all access thing where anybody who picks up a paint brush or camera is automatically an artist/photographer. its not subjective, its fact. everything now-a-days is referred to as being someones opinion so noone gets their feelings hurt. and there is a big difference between me not liking someones work and it being BAD work, i think thats what most miss these days. somethings are just not as subjective as thought to be. everyone and their mother is a photographer these days, anyone who picks up a camera referres to themselves as a photographer. i understand those who want to learn and that is wonderful, everyone starts there, but if you're starting out keep quiet, gain knowledge, observe, learn, etc, dont go saying " i am a photographer now". no your not, your a person with a camera who wants to be a photographer.

my 2 cents, and most on this site will disagree with me. o well, lol

If they like your work you're a professional, if they don't your an amateur. Just joking.

Call yourself a amateur, call yourself the Queen of England, makes no difference to me =)

On a side note, was it really necessary to type the thread title in ALL CAPS?

If you are concerned over titles it's probably more about what other people say or call you than about what you want to call yourself.
Brian v.

nicksan wrote in post #9816921
...Music is a perfect example. If you are gigging and making money you are a pro...or a "working musician". Doesn't mean you are better than the "bedroom" or "basement" musicians. That's hardly the case.

Music is a perfect example, especially since it correlates to the "artistic" part. There are plenty of gigging musicians who are barely competent, and plenty of basement/bedroom "amateurs" who are smoking players.

The labels are equally confusing too - if you know three chords and are good enough to play a few songs at local bars and backyard parties, yet you're getting paid for it, are you really a "professional"? Conversely, if you're a bedroom/basement player who has been playing for 20 years and can absolutely burn the strings off a guitar, yet you only jam with friends or play an occasional (free) open mic session, are you really an "amateur".

Labels are just labels.

The word amateur originally comes from the Latin "amator" meaning lover..

An amateur of anything is a lover of that field..

Ask yourself,,"Do I still love photography?"

Everyone seems caught up on semantics, and how to define "professional" or "amateur." But it seems as though the question you're really trying to ask is, "am I any good?" You say you've been doing this for about a year, and you probably feel as though you've put a lot of time and effort into it. You want to know whether or not it shows.

Perhaps my opinion isn't worth much because I've only been at this photo thing for a year and a half. Then again, maybe it's worth more because I understand. Looking at your flickr, I really like your surfing shots, though a few need to be color corrected. I like your macro shots, though I would suggest focus stacking to give a greater depth of field.

I see more than a few signs that you're very new at this. I can see from the "now you see him/now you don't" pair of photos that you're still trying to understand aperture (and also that you're extremely captivated by its effects). I can see from the number of black and white images, which are also not particularly well suited to BW, that you're having trouble finding coherency in a given environment, and you need something extra to bring all the elements of a photograph together. I can also see from the number of photos that are composed of a single item (a trash can, a shoe, a ticket), that you find many things beautiful and interesting, and you want to share that with others - though the execution is rather plain.

Photography is certainly one of those things that occurs on a gradient. You don't get a degree once you've taken enough photos at a certain quality. If it motivates you to think of yourself as a photographer, then by all means do so. If it helps to be a little hard and critical on yourself, that's fine too. It seems as though you're looking for some degree of affirmation here, but I don't think you're going to find it.

In my opinion, one should only say to others, "I am a photographer" if that's how they derive their income. Frequently I find myself saying "I am a photographer for (some organization)," but since that isn't my main source of income, I never augment that introduction.

so my question is, when does a photographer consider themselves a pro?

yogestee wrote in post #9825317
The word amateur originally comes from the Latin "amator" meaning lover..

An amateur of anything is a lover of that field..

Ask yourself,,"Do I still love photography?"

oh, now i can really use that "AMATEUR SHOOTER/PHOTOGRAPHER" coz i really love photography now!

I spent 41 years in Photography. My business card said "Photographer". When meeting new people and asked what I did I always said "Photographer".

Several years ago while on a cruise ship at dinner where you sit at the same table every night with the same people I met a person. When asked what we did I said Photographer, he said he was a Professional Property Manager. After a few nights it became obvious this person was also a BS'er. So the term professional became mute, for him anyway. Maybe if he would have said amateur that would have explained everything.

I have always thought adding Amateur or Professional is just plain hokey.

Remember, Jimmy Buffett said "What if The Hokey Pokey IS really what it's
all about".

You people kill me on this forum...Wonder how many of you even looked at his Flickr?

You have some pretty cool pictures on there, keep up the good work! I would call you a photographer...Who is getting pretty good.