Airport Police

Inspeqtor wrote in post #9968845
I don't "chase" trains, but I do on occasion like to take pictures of them. I live in Elkhart, IN which has a very large rail yard. My dad was a railroader for over 40 years starting with NYC and when the Elkhart yard was built, at that time it was the largest in the world. Just this week I drove by the yards and saw a train that was all very large John Deere equipment. Fortunately I had my camera so I took some pictures. A couple weeks ago I did not have my camera and saw a train with nothing but wood logs. Boy I wished I had my camera for that one.

Cool deal, Elkhart is a Norfolk Southern yard, the same railroad I work for. I'm based out a big class yard similar to Elkhart down here in NC.

Sad to see some airports aren't as friendly as the ones we have in Houston. We have dedicated spotting areas at KHOU/KIAH.

I live just over a hour from a bigger airport, Charlotte Douglas Intl. in Charlotte NC. I think they have a public viewing area, planning to go down there in the near future.

CLT has a very good viewing area and IIRC, they even pipe in ATC over speakers.

Gerald R Ford Airport in Grand Rapids, Mi has a designated viewing area which is directly across from the terminal. While you aren't at the end of the runway you get excellent views as they cross from right to left or vice versa depending on the winds.

First my Amigo, Jay has you dialed in, it was good that the OP contacted the airport staff. I ALWAYS contact the operations manager or the responsible party prior to shooting even near an airport. I always have ID ready along with busines cards and often my ISAP card or some images to show. More than once I have gotten into areas not usually open to the public to shoot from a rooftop or even on a few occasions a tower or two. I have had tower rats call me when an interesting A/C is going to fly in and I will share images with Military personell or managers to help grease the wheel.

If you don't want a hassle from security and that goes for several types of places don't be a suprise visitor. Call or write them in advance, it shows a willingness to cooperate to get what you want.

If you insist that you have a "right" to do something you will usually get shut down. The guys or girls with the guns are usually going to win... lol.

It always pays to make your self known, introduce your self and make friends with staff at sights you want to shoot at. I did this for a one day wonder in Titusville and ended up riding in a Cirrus 22 upside down at 7k feet!! Ya just never know...

LBaldwin wrote in post #9970477
If you insist that you have a "right" to do something you will usually get shut down. The guys or girls with the guns are usually going to win... lol.

The truth is you have a right to photograph from public property without kissing anyone's butt. It’s still America (for now). If we keep giving up our rights to worthless bureaucrats, it won't be for much longer.

I'd say a reasonable response is to cooperate with uniformed authorities, record pertinent details as needed, and file complaints with vigor if your rights are violated.

Went down to Charlotte Douglas Intl Airport today. Got some awesome shots! They have this large public overlook above on of the main runways. The 250mm worked really well for that area there! Also caught my first big jets landing, a Lufthansa Airbus A340-600 Quad Jet, and a US Airways A330-300 Twin jet.

https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=9977095#p​ost9977095

District_History_Fan wrote in post #9974528
The truth is you have a right to photograph from public property without kissing anyone's butt. It’s still America (for now). If we keep giving up our rights to worthless bureaucrats, it won't be for much longer.

I'd say a reasonable response is to cooperate with uniformed authorities, record pertinent details as needed, and file complaints with vigor if your rights are violated.

Why do people always have to be confrontational?

The OP has found the better approach (as found by numerous others) of speak nicely and ask for permission. This not only keeps you from being hassled but can (as others suggest) get you access to areas that are normally off limits without certification/accredit​ation.

A kind word will nearly always get you further than invoking legal statutes and rights as it gets you one thing - goodwill, which imho is priceless.

District_History_Fan wrote in post #9974528
The truth is you have a right to photograph from public property without kissing anyone's butt. It’s still America (for now). If we keep giving up our rights to worthless bureaucrats, it won't be for much longer.

I'd say a reasonable response is to cooperate with uniformed authorities, record pertinent details as needed, and file complaints with vigor if your rights are violated.

You Sir are correct. But before you accuse me of osculating with a civil servants gluteus maximus, please keep in mind that we now live a much different world. Yes you have rights, I am first to say they should not be trod upon. I am veteran, so are several members of my family going all way back to the not so Civil War. My Grandpa and Grandma are buried probably 10 minutes from right there in Birmingham. My Dad, retired US NAVY Master Chief is from Leeds, AL.

In case no one let you in on a litte secret, some nutbags decided to learn to fly well enough to crash airliners into the World Trade Center and kill 2973 folks, destroy entire businesses and untold number of lives for quite some time to come. Cops really hate that. I don't want to give away any of my rights, they are too hard to recover using blood and treasure. BUT the world is a different place now. Make your self known, call "Friendly" when it is appropriate. And learn that you can get some really neat access just by being polite and asking. Especially when it comes to airplanes.

I tired to take a photo of a Coast Guard Jayhawk helicopter on the ramp at Portland International and was told to leave because the TSA doesn't allow the public to photo registration numbers on commercial, private or military aircraft. One....it says Astoria Air Station right on the side...no mystery as to it's base...two, the TSA is responsible for internal airport security while the Port police are responsible for outside security, three...on the far side of the runway as on the departure ends and approach ends of the runways there are plenty of places along the public road that you can take photos from without the hassle..four...when I showed her my Air Transport Pilot (ATP) and mentioned that I was a Captain with an (unmentioned) airline, she sheepishly agreed that she was wrong and that it was okay to photo airplanes. The problem is not of being confrontational...it is one of letting the people in "charge" know that you have rights in this country and that just because they are uneducated, stupid or just plain mean and petty, you are entitled to those rights. I will not let anybody touch my cameras, my ID or anything else for that matter if I am in a public place. If someone wants to run my plate, let them, I have nothing to hide but there are laws about reasonable suspicion and if someone sees I am in a public place taking obvious pictures of airplanes, not acting covertly or suspiciously, they don't have the right to subject me to the "9/11 defense". Just my humble opinion. Be courteous but be firm. Assert your rights, call for a supervisor.

dtw757 wrote in post #10073495
I tired to take a photo of a Coast Guard Jayhawk helicopter on the ramp at Portland International and was told to leave because the TSA doesn't allow the public to photo registration numbers on commercial, private or military aircraft. One....it says Astoria Air Station right on the side...no mystery as to it's base...two, the TSA is responsible for internal airport security while the Port police are responsible for outside security, three...on the far side of the runway as on the departure ends and approach ends of the runways there are plenty of places along the public road that you can take photos from without the hassle..four...when I showed her my Air Transport Pilot (ATP) and mentioned that I was a Captain with an (unmentioned) airline, she sheepishly agreed that she was wrong and that it was okay to photo airplanes. The problem is not of being confrontational...it is one of letting the people in "charge" know that you have rights in this country and that just because they are uneducated, stupid or just plain mean and petty, you are entitled to those rights. I will not let anybody touch my cameras, my ID or anything else for that matter if I am in a public place. If someone wants to run my plate, let them, I have nothing to hide but there are laws about reasonable suspicion and if someone sees I am in a public place taking obvious pictures of airplanes, not acting covertly or suspiciously, they don't have the right to subject me to the "9/11 defense". Just my humble opinion. Be courteous but be firm. Assert your rights, call for a supervisor.

You had me until the highlighted part above...

If you take this mindest and project it towards positions of authority, you'll lose every time.

They're just trying to do their jobs and unless you also produced a press credential of some kind along with your ATP, you aren't doing a job. You're just a four-striped GWC.

There is bad and/or incomplete information on both sides of the fence in these encounters. Aviation Photography is a niche area and often, you'll find security people who just don't see or understand the attraction of photographing aircraft. Unfortunately, these folks will often jump directly to the assumption that you must be surveiling the airport because "nobody in their right mind would be out here taking pictures of airplanes."

And frankly, I have to admit that I'm somewhat dissapointed that you, as an aviation professional, would openly state such a condescending tone toward the very people who are on the front lines of trying to cover your ass and ensure you don't have a very bad day at FL350.

Everyone involved in aviation from Captains on down to fence-hanging photographers has a part to play in keeping aviation safe and viable. The best thing you can do is convince the powers that be that having extra eyes and ears around the perimeter is a good thing and that if you see something with your 300/400/500mm lens, you'll make a call and tell someone.

The very worst thing you can do is cop the "Don't You Know Who I Think I Am?" attitude... All that does is piss people off and make opportunities for legitimate photography go away.

just because they are uneducated, stupid or just plain mean and petty

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #10073555
You had me until the highlighted part above....

The problem, is, that THIS IS the problem........enforce​ment personnel, sometimes with way too much in the way of authority and weapons, who ARE uneducated, stupid or just plain mean and petty

Land of the Free, home of the world longest ongoing argument

Rights are funny old things, everyone has them, some even have the right to make the odd mistake.

A totalitarian state is great, at least you know where you stand