Bidding T&I for a league

I'm looking at trying to secure some league T&I contracts in the near future and was wondering what exactly goes into a proposal? So far, I've only done individual teams, so I haven't had to worry about any kind of proposals.

I guess I'm basically ignorant as to what to even present to them. Most of these leagues don't have anyone doing T&I at all. The individual teams are responsible for finding a photographer and often it ends up being a parent with a P&S or no one at all. Its not that they won't spend any money on photos (I've done pretty good with the individual teams I've done), its just that they usually don't even think about photos.

Anyways, just wondering about somewhere to start with a proposal.

Hey Derek,

If the league does not have a formal deal with anyone it will help since they are not already conditioned to expecting big kickbacks for the service.

What I do is contact the person(s) running the league and ask if I can offer professional photo services to their teams and offer them a percentage of the total sales. I pitch quality product, efficiency and time management on photo day and that they have nothing to do other than pass out some paperwork and finished photos. Most of my leagues are content with 15% but since yours don't already do this, you could possibly start off by offering less and still get the work.

Generally, an offer of professional services and some money is all I need to land the deal. If they already have formal photography services, I try and find out who is doing it, get copies of their order forms, pricing and terms with the league and develop a proposal that allows them to compare things as apples to apples as possible along with some samples of work from previous leagues, assuming it still meets my overall business model.

I work with the league to find a convenient date(s) and set up a schedule for photo day(s).

I then provide the league lead with preprinted order envelopes (I print them myself on #10 envelopes) and a summary letter with the date and schedule that they pass out to each of their coaches who in turn pass out to the parents at a practice and instruct them to bring the forms and payment with them on photo day.

When photos are printed, I sort them, place them in individual envelopes grouped by team and deliver them to the league lead who distributes them to the teams.

I am doing this for about 200 teams a year right now and it seems to grow each year. It is a much more profitable way to cover sports than action shots that is for sure.

This is pretty high level but if you want more details just let me know.

Awesome Kevin, thanks. Pretty straightforward. I think that I tend to over-think these things most of the time.

Ive been doing sporadic action shots for our AAU basketball laague and inquired about T&I about a month too late! We probably have 25 teams under our roof- I dont know why I didnt think of T&I sooner- probably because I ENJOY the action shooting more! The current photog they have lined up has a very limited offering- no website to even see his work, etc, etc. I already know (just from our team) that some kids wont even be showing up for the team shot (which makes it infinitely less valuabe to ME at least).

Anyways, I'll definitely bid on this for next season.

A couple questions:
Are most folks printing and packaging themselves vs using a lab that pre-packages?
What is the usual turnaround time from shoot to delivery?
What is the expected kickback to the league or sponsor (or is this optional)?

lowepg wrote in post #9893509
A couple questions:
Are most folks printing and packaging themselves vs using a lab that pre-packages?
What is the usual turnaround time from shoot to delivery?
What is the expected kickback to the league or sponsor (or is this optional)?

I print through a lab and package myself. The lab will do it but it costs extra and I would rather take responsibility for it so if there is a problem I am the one to blame.

I try to turn stuff around in a week but depending on how busy the lab is can take up to two weeks.

Kickback is optional and really depends on the league. My pricing model is based on 15% of total sales and if the the league wants more, I adjust the price to the customer accordingly.

lowepg wrote in post #9893509
I already know (just from our team) that some kids wont even be showing up for the team shot.

Be sure and let them know what selfish babies they are being. Just because they don't want a team photo is no excuse for letting down those that do. They are part of a team, tell them to act like it.

Sorry for the rant. I have very little tolerance for that kind of attitude.

lowepg wrote in post #9893509
I already know (just from our team) that some kids wont even be showing up for the team shot (which makes it infinitely less valuabe to ME at least).

I told them that the team picture was for the coach and not necessarily for them. I had all 11 kids there for that. Two of which left immediately after because they couldn't stay for the game.

For the ones that I just bid on, I offered a 10% kickback initially. That gives me some bargaining room if they want to negotiate. I am also looking to offer a different coach's gift rather than the boring old 5x7 plaque. I'm doing a 8x10 acrylic statuette of the team picture for the coach for the lacrosse team I'm doing in April.

I have been turned down by a couple of leagues because they already had someone in place. Their quality is mediocre at best. I told them to use me for 1 year and compare quality and go back to them next year if they weren't happy with me. That got them thinking. However, it is hardly ever a 1 man/woman decision. There is a board that takes care of the big decisions. Undoubtedly, someone on the board knows the other photographer and the league settles w/ mediocre quality. Rarely have I been impressed w/ the quality of product. Including before I really got into photography.

Big K wrote in post #9893691
I print through a lab and package myself. The lab will do it but it costs extra and I would rather take responsibility for it so if there is a problem I am the one to blame.

I try to turn stuff around in a week but depending on how busy the lab is can take up to two weeks.

Kickback is optional and really depends on the league. My pricing model is based on 15% of total sales and if the the league wants more, I adjust the price to the customer accordingly.

Hey Kevin,

I'm getting ready to put together some bids as well and would like to know in detail how you go about keeping things organized and moving fast and smooth on the actual photo day. Also do you have any words of advice for getting that first T&I contract? I expect that the organization would want to see some examples of past T&I work and all I really have are some team shots that were hastily done after tournament wins (sectional, regional, etc).

Thanks a lot for the good advice you've given so far.

There was a thread over at FredMiranda about offering buttons or magnets to the league for "fund-raising" items. The person made a good argument for why to use them.

http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/88097​7

What do you guys think?

DDCSD wrote in post #9894018
There was a thread over at FredMiranda about offering buttons or magnets to the league for "fund-raising" items. The person made a good argument for why to use them.

http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/88097​7

What do you guys think?

Dereck,

I like the fund raiser idea. I would be interested to see how it all comes together. My only concern is that leagues won't see the benefit of the fundraiser. Granted, it benefits us more than them, in regards to cost vs. % returned. Do you have more details has to how it works?

kb9tdj wrote in post #9894012
Hey Kevin,

I'm getting ready to put together some bids as well and would like to know in detail how you go about keeping things organized and moving fast and smooth on the actual photo day. Also do you have any words of advice for getting that first T&I contract? I expect that the organization would want to see some examples of past T&I work and all I really have are some team shots that were hastily done after tournament wins (sectional, regional, etc).

Thanks a lot for the good advice you've given so far.

One thing I've seen is a dry erase board used before each team w/ their team name/# on it. Once the entire team is shot, they are rubber banded together and put into a box. I have place on the order envelope w/ "File start," "File end" and "File Used" for each player. Helps me to keep track as to which file goes w/ whom. I also create a separate folder on my camera (the beauty of the 1D line) for each team. I also make note of which folder is which team.

Who are you going to use to fulfill your orders? I looked into Millers Pic-a-Pak ordering system via Roes. I didn't find it very user friendly. I plan on doing up my own button template and uploading it into MpixPro and using them for all my fulfillment. The file numbers are printed on the back of each image, so determining which print is who should be easy.

To my fellow sport photographers in this thread: (long intro)

I wanted to say thanks for the information on this, since this is something I had been interested in doing and you guys have provided some great information for me. I appreciate it!

canonnoob wrote in post #9894289
To my fellow sport photographers in this thread: (long intro)

I wanted to say thanks for the information on this, since this is something I had been interested in doing and you guys have provided some great information for me. I appreciate it!

Dave, good luck. I'm running into some very frustrating hurdles in getting contracts. I do have a LAX team I'm doing in April. If it works out well, I'm in the running to get the contract for a LARGE lacrosse club, which would really be nice. Sometimes all it takes is to start w/ 1.

kb9tdj wrote in post #9894012
Hey Kevin,

I'm getting ready to put together some bids as well and would like to know in detail how you go about keeping things organized and moving fast and smooth on the actual photo day. Also do you have any words of advice for getting that first T&I contract? I expect that the organization would want to see some examples of past T&I work and all I really have are some team shots that were hastily done after tournament wins (sectional, regional, etc).

Thanks a lot for the good advice you've given so far.

Hey Scott,

Here are some thoughts for starters. Let me know if this creates any additional questions.

I take a note pad and have the coach write down the kids names in the order we take the photos. I stress to them how important it is to get the order correct and stress to them to not write down names in advance but only as the kid is walking up to take their photo. I then take the team photo after all the individual photos are done. This also allows a few extra minutes for any kids that are late to show up. If they are still missing kids, I will either take the team photo short of a kid or have them come back as a team when all kids are there and work their team shot quickly into the mix but let this be the coaches call.

I then rubber band the list around the order forms. Since the list is in the same order as the photos it is very easy to match them up when I get back to the computer and don't have to slow down shooting time to do it while we go. Using the schedule it is easy to get the teams in the order they were shot as well. There is also a field on the form for team name so late orders, etc. can easily be mixed back in later.

I normally take photos of all kids regardless if they ordered or not since there always seems to be parents that forget about photo day or show up at game time and decide they want photos. This way I already have the photo and don't have to mess with working in single kids.

I do this by myself 95% of the time and am able to run through 5-6 teams an hour depending on how many kids are on a team.

I also use lighting for all shots, indoors or out. It allows me to give them a much better look which is an easy way to separate yourself from the competition.

I don't offer packages I sell everything ala carte. I offer 5x7, 8x10, (2) 3 1/2 x 5, (eight) die cut wallets, buttons, (2) wallet size magnets, dry erase magnets and sports tickets for the individual photos and the same items less the buttons, dry erase magnets and tickets for the team photo. I started off selling packages but found that I have considerably more total sales from ala cart offerings since many people only want an individual photo or a team photo and don't want a package of stuff they don't need. I also used to offer a lot of other novelty items but found they rarely sold, cluttered up the order form making it more confusing and was just not worth the effort. 5x7, 3 1/2 x 5 and buttons make up probably 85% of the total sales.

One thing I did not mention earlier is that I also provide a free 5x7 team photo of each team to the league. Most of them produce sponsor recognition plaques and the photos work great for this.

I don't give free stuff to coaches unless it as a favor for a personal friend.

The important things are that the teams be on time for their scheduled shooting time and that the coach get the names written down in order. The rest is just a matter of getting the kid in the right spot and trying to not have them look too goofy.

You won't need a huge number of samples to include with your package so you might try finding a local team and having them let you take some photos of them. It also does not matter if it is a different sport than what you are bidding, T&I is pretty much the same with everyone.

For your presentation, an example of your order form, a plan for how much you can kick back and a single page highlighting the process you plan to use along with a few samples in reserve in case they ask should be all you need. The simpler the better since I find league managers don't have a much longer attention span than the kids being photographed.

I would also suggest starting off with a small league or a limited number of teams to get a routine established. Producing a good product will go a long way toward building your business as parents all talk to each other. Three of the four new leagues I picked up for this spring actually contacted me offering me the contract.

Again, if you have any additional questions just let me know.

Kevin

PS What did you decide about your camera?

Big K wrote in post #9894602
Hey Scott,

Here are some thoughts for starters. Let me know if this creates any additional questions.

...
[lots of great stuff deleted to save space]
...

Again, if you have any additional questions just let me know.

Kevin

PS What did you decide about your camera?

Kevin,

Thanks a lot for all of the great details; you definitely have given me some things to think about. Did you ever try just photographing the player holding their order form? Knowing my luck the forms would get out of order and I'd be screwed on identifying who was who.

As far as the camera goes, I'm still leaning toward getting a used Mk III from Roberts, but am VERY seriously considering holding off on that for now and getting a used 300 f/2.8 lens first. I really would like to have the 300 before fall sports starts up since there is a lot of night shooting during football and soccer season. Who knows, maybe the Mk III prices will be a little lower come late summer or early fall.

However, (there's always a "however" or "but") I did get a phone call today from the sports editor at the Greenfield Reporter and it looks like I'm going to be (hopefully!) credentialed for the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the month of May. I could really go for a second body to use up the the track, so I'm still going back and forth between the lens and body. I know....GLASS FIRST! The 300 is really the last piece of my lens puzzle that I need and would like to get that put to bed.

Thanks again for all of your advice.