580 exII and umbrella. can't get to look right

I have really good understanding of using flash on camera. I am starting to move out to using flash off camera in an umbrella and wireless triggers.
I bought a simple westcott 43 inch umbrella (i think, it is at home) I have it mounted to a lighting stand any where from 5-7 feet above ground, just playing around. above subject and shooting somewhat down. I have tried using the umbrella as a bounce (flash aiming into umbrella, bouncing out to fill area) and as a shoot through (black cover off)

I do not have a flash meter yet. I have been using a balance smarter (white/grey/black 12" card to gain exposure) This is in my basement. It seems like everything has that built in flash on camera everything exposed white, with barely any shadow look to them. I have flash off to camera left at 45 degree angle, with a white reflector on the right. Played with iso and turning flash up and down and different distances. roughly 5-8 feet from subject. When i have flash mounted to camera, using different angles for flash, i have good control of where i want shadows and good over all picture.

I am trying to master using off camera flash. I know that will take time. And using one flash is different then two flashes. I have been reading strobist and reading on here. Any tips tricks?

How about some examples so we can see what the problem is? My first thought is that with a shoot thru (or any umbrella) my results with a reflector have been less then stellar. I need to get the reflector VERY close to the subject as the umbrella scatters the light everywhere, and there isn't a whole lot of light to reflect. With umbrellas I get my best results outdoors using the shoot thru and simply filling the ambient light. I'm not a flash guru, and probably there's going to be others coming along with better thoughts on this.

If you're trying to get get moodier lighting, I suggest having your shutter speed at 1/200 or 1/250 dependent on your camera body. This will kill as much ambient as possible. I believe what you may be referencing is a lot of spill coming from the umbrella. If I am shooting indoors I try using my softbox as much as possible as it controls the light better but outside I'll either go umbrella or softbox.

bphillips330 wrote in post #9901633
It seems like everything has that built in flash on camera everything exposed white, with barely any shadow look to them.

Wait, are you using the pop-up flash as well as the off-camera light? Don't do that....

Not sure what problems you're having, but I found placement pretty foolproof, and if you're just getting everything white, you're obviously using too much power. So just either lower the flash power, lower the ISO, or stop down the aperture.

Again, examples photos (of the bad shots) along with the settings could probably help us narrow down your problem in no time!

Are you using your histogram and chimping your exposures? Without seeing examples its hard to tell, but it sounds like you are probably just overexposing your subjects giving them that washed out look.

Not using the on camera flash at all. That thing never comes up. Think i have used it maybe for 5 shots total when 580 battery died

egordon99 wrote in post #9905320
Wait, are you using the pop-up flash as well as the off-camera light? Don't do that....

Not sure what problems you're having, but I found placement pretty foolproof, and if you're just getting everything white, you're obviously using too much power. So just either lower the flash power, lower the ISO, or stop down the aperture.

Again, examples photos (of the bad shots) along with the settings could probably help us narrow down your problem in no time!

Thanks for the responses. When i get home i will post some pictures.