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Thread started 05 Apr 2010 (Monday) 13:34
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"How much should I charge?"- for those wondering what to charge

 
Karl ­ Johnston
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Apr 05, 2010 13:34 |  #1
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Generally this is directed at someone who is just starting out and doesn't have a clue how to begin to charge. That's okay, everyone's been there, this thread is engineered to give you an idea on how photographers generally price. A lot of what I learned I learned from "trial by fire." Made a lot of errors, misjudgements, mistakes. Had some hard times, some low times, some high times.. But I learned. In this post I hope to guide the new and starting through the world of how photographers price photography, and how it generally works. Finally I found a happy medium 3 years later, turned into a semi-pro, but still treated and operated my photography business as I would if it were my only thing. Anyway I'd like to pass on to the community some of the things that I learned of the pro photographer's world and what worked out for me in the end. This post is more directed to appeal to freelance/commercial or editorial photographers, rather than personal photography but a lot of the concepts still apply.

One of the biggest arguments we see in deciding what to charge goes something like this

I can't charge too high, Betty Ann Photography is the local pro in my area and she's so much better than me and charging for so much less. If I don't mind her I won't get any business!

That's not to say you should completely ignore her. What you should do is understand why her prices are so high, or so low, and how she can or cannot do that. How to identify if you can do it too. What you need to determine is what does it cost you to do the same thing as her. At this point you shouldn't even be considering other photographers - you should look at yourself. This can be helpful sometimes when deciding what the current market will bear.. but if you're going broke offering what Betty ann is...chances are you can't charge as low as she does.

I have a bunch of camera equipment and its all already bought and paid for. It doesn't cost anything to shoot a picture and burn a disk for the client, just time

Just because you already paid for the expenses doesn't mean you don't have to account for them ! They depreciate over time, remember. Repairs, maintenance..they won't be there forever.

When taking into account what I charge I take into account what my costs are to perform, at the basic level what my break-even cost (http://entrepreneurs.a​bout.com …inessplan/a/bre​akeven.htm (external link)) is to perform. Otherwise you just can't do it - you're losing money. Most Photographers charge on top of their creative fees what is called a licensing fee to gain the rights to use the image in a specific way - you can upsell this or downsell it as much as you please or the market will bear. It varies.

For example I could collect $25 a month for the next 5 years on a head shot used in business cards, annual reports and internal communications on top of the $150-200 session that happened over the course of an hour with the client. (often a re-occurring one by usage level or time duration, but not limited to). This turns the $150-200 session into $1775 over a 5 year period rather than the lump sum. They can cancel, or they can upgrade, or they can re-shoot and select a more economical package, or a higher rate one.

Some photographers charge a rate. Some charge by hour. Some charge by head or by person. Some charge by piece or by package. Whatever you do, make sure you can easily do it without cutting into your own costs. Sounds simple but you can be surprised how long it takes for you to get caught up in things. If you haven't done something before or are not completely sure if you can do it - don't do it. Test first with friends, on your own time but If you're doing it for a client and they're expecting you to perform it for money...regardless of the price you charge...and you screw it up ...That's when you run into trouble.

Licensing is tricky. Often I refer to www.fotoquote.com (external link) to get a # idea but it can vary based on where you are- market or region- or whatever. You can read up all you would possibly want to know about licensing at: http://asmp.org …ials/licensing-guide.html (external link)

Lastly, if the market won't bear you charging 20k/hour chances are you're probably better off shooting $2k an hour or 500 (if you can bear it yourself, of course, for what you're doing). Numbers can be misleading. You may look at a photographer's rates and think initially "WOW" or you may look at them and think "Damn that's LOW." but what you miss is what goes into that, what is being provided exactly, what kind of expenses that photographer has, and more.

A break down of the main considerations you should take into account when coming up with how much you should charge for your work:

Break Even Analysis (where is your profit margin?)
http://entrepreneurs.a​bout.com …inessplan/a/bre​akeven.htm (external link)
Cost Of Doing Business (what are your expenses, living and salary and performing business - oh, also, get in the habit of doing this a lot because it can change - Don't be afraid to change up if it means keeping a roof over your head)
http://www.nppa.org …practices/cdb/c​dbcalc.cfm (external link)
Creative fee(what you get paid)
Licensing(what you charge others to utilize your work, or display, publish, distribute, etc.)
Expenses (travel, props, rentals, assistants, print creation, materials used, team costs and related fees, refer to CODB calc)
Applicable Tax(consult with accountant/tax professional in your region)

Pains


No matter what you read or learn, its all theory until put into practice. The shoot you're given or the clients you encounter all have very unique needs and very unique budgets, you could be shooting in a very unique place and the way things flow can dry up over night. A lot of clients require education about how you bill, what they get, when they get it, what it looks like, what to expect. It's important to outline, to highlight, to show and to guide. Break it down and put yourself in the client's shoes - make it understandable. A lot of clients don't get licensing at all, or why they can't just own the images and that's the end of it. Create a template you can refer to explain why things work this way, and make it clear they can't turn around and re-use your work however is not outlined or agreed in your original agreement.

Once and a while you can probably forget it and just shoot the odd on the side job for a flat rate, like I said - you can pick and choose when it's appropriate and when it's not. Feel it out.

I remember the first and one of the last shoots I ever did for a client where I wasn't sure about how long it would take to finish the project work- I charged a decent price for the hour for the retouching, the product photography, and proofing. The client then asked me to burn it on disks for them to use at trade shows and distribution. I had no idea about licensing, change orders or that it was okay to charge for additional work; it wasn't even a factor at the time. I took out the own costs of the CD creation myself, figuring why not it's only 50 bucks...and spent the next 18 hours (3 days ish) creating the disks on a very slow burning CD burner. Nightmare. It turned out okay and worked out but I made a grand total of -$20 an hour or something like that in the end.


Websites

Freelancer Hourly Rate Calculator
http://freelanceswitch​.com/rates/ (external link)

ASMP Tutorials and forms - more than you'd ever want to know about the life of the pro photographer
http://asmp.org/links/​1 (external link)

Marketing Blog - Lots of good articles on marketing using social media on here.
http://blog.hubspot.co​m/ (external link)

Fotoquote - licensing calculation, keyworder and business management software
www.fotoquote.com (external link)

Studio Cloud - Client management/business management software.
- I find this software handy currently to keep track of things, keep everything all in one decent ordered file. You can do the same on an excel file but this is a bit fancier.
www.studiocloud.com (external link)

Sage Wedding Pros - Directed at wedding photographers, but the advice is sound for all. I like to frequently read this blog. Lots of good intelligent articles on it.
www.sageweddingpros.co​m (external link)


Photo-Business Books

Some books I can recommend. Some are more US-cocentric but the concepts are pretty universal.

Fast Track Photographer Business Plan
Photographer's Market
Best Business Practices For Photographers


Adventurous Photographer, Writer (external link) & Wedding Photographer (external link)

  
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lvidmar
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Apr 05, 2010 16:52 |  #2

Awesome post.


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kgking5150
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Apr 05, 2010 17:11 |  #3

Very good info.


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jrosephoto
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Apr 05, 2010 20:37 |  #4

Thank you for the time of putting this info together. Lot of great info and something to think about.


'Don't be repressed in your work, dare to experiment, consider any urge, if in a new direction all the better.' - Edward Weston
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phenom_1819
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Apr 06, 2010 14:37 |  #5

Wow... Lots of great info here! Going to have to make time to get through it all. Thank you for posting this!


Cal -- Yakima, WA
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Karl ­ Johnston
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Apr 06, 2010 16:04 |  #6
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Thanks, I added and clarified some stuff (made it shorter too, easier to read).


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Bilsen
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Apr 06, 2010 16:11 |  #7

Suggest a sticky here Mods.


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shadowman
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Apr 08, 2010 08:51 |  #8

Good stuff.


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TaggM
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May 30, 2010 14:22 as a reply to  @ shadowman's post |  #9

Thanks, KJ!

That Cost of Doing Business Calculator is stupendously helpful. Now, I need to figure out:
1. Who is open to $125/hr, $250 minimum for a shoot.
2. How to locate and market to them.
3. How to obtain referrals.

Events/weddings should satisfy 1. quite nicely, although those would have to be priced with second shooters in mind.

I assume that the bulk of business will lie elsewhere, so back to 1.

For marketing, where to start beyond the Internet? Anyone?


I have Canon gear. SX1 IS, two 7D bodies and mostly f/2.8 lenses 10mm-200mm, doubler, and 17/4 TSE, some 580EX IIs. Additional portable lighting gear, and tripod with 360 pano mount. Want two 7D II bodies.

  
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Mhappy
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May 30, 2010 15:37 as a reply to  @ TaggM's post |  #10

What a fantastic post Karl!!! You say it all so well!!!!!!! bw!


50D / XT (backup) / 17-85mm / 24-70mm f/2.8 L / 50mm f/1.8 / 2- 430 EX Speedlite and a Fonger (I know most photogs hate it, but I like it!) / Everything else I use... I rent! ;-)a

  
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Chalfant_Photography
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May 31, 2010 22:38 |  #11

Thank you for all the info.. very helpful


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M_ark
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May 31, 2010 22:54 |  #12

this is the most concise thread i've read so far on the topic. well written! I think a sticky would be most appropriate.


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mritchy
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May 31, 2010 23:02 |  #13

I wish this was written when I started a year ago. Excellent.


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Eiro
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Jun 01, 2010 02:39 |  #14

Karl. You had me at "Generally"....O..M>>G...
The post was wicked....
Now lets bet some cold hard $$ there will be another "how much should I charge post for this" in less than 1048 hrs :) (had to pick a big number_just incase the luck is in Karls favor) :D

Funny I've come upon this post. I've had a client today tell me/ask me, "I've gone to 4 photographers and they are really good,and you charge the highest of them all"...My reply was (not to sound cocky or anything)
"My rates allow me to live the lifestyle I desire,I work hard to maintain the consistency of that type of life, my rates are based off of that", half an hour later I've received a deposit for the gig for next week :)
She said>> "Thank you for not bullshhh___tin', I respect a person who values their work and themselves". I smiled and just thought to myself 'and I love that I can have sushi with a glass of white zinfandel for dinner before bed' :)


Get out and shoot

  
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Blueskies505
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Jun 15, 2010 12:53 |  #15

Awesome post. You are so right, I have learned this year more than ever that pricing is not about what he/she is doing down the street - we really don't know if they are making their average goal or not, and pricing also depends on what we are offering. So this post is incredible - it gets right down to what pricing is about. Look at Cost of Sales, Cost of Gear, and the time your putting into it. Then price accordingly. I heard the higher the prices, the less price sensitive your client will be, and that is how your going to make a good living, doing something you love.


Dawn Marie
Gear: 5D Mark II, 20D, [COLOR="Gray"]35mm1.4 L, 85mm1.2L, 24-105 F4 L 580 EX II, 430 EX II
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"How much should I charge?"- for those wondering what to charge
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