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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 05 Apr 2010 (Monday) 13:44
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For Outdoor Location Work, I'm Sticking With Strobes And Giving Up On Speedlight's

 
TMR ­ Design
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Apr 05, 2010 13:44 |  #1

Let me explain the title of my post.

I've been doing a lot of location work outdoors in various conditions and times of day. I also did an experimental shoot the other day with a single Nikon SB-900 Speedlight. It was a disappointing nightmare to say the least.

I'm not knocking the use of Speedlight's and I'm certainly not saying you can't use them because many people surely do, but I do find that there are many limitations that I find unacceptable for my work.

This isn't anything new that most of you don't already know but rather than just conceptualize about it, I'm putting in real world terms.

I used a 46" Softlighter II as my main light source and since I was shooting roughly from the waist up I needed to keep the Softlighter about 4-6 feet from my subject depending on the angle and position of the light relative to the subject.

First I tried using Nikon's Advanced Wireless System (a subset of CLS) just to see if that would work and surprisingly it did work even in bright midday Sun but (and it's a big one) it absolutely required line of sight and made it impossible to position the main light on the opposite side of the camera's built-in flash when the camera is turned to portrait orientation. The sensor on the flash couldn't see the camera's built in flash which meant that the light had to always be at camera left. I could get the SU-800 controller for better range but it doesn't completely solve the problem.

When conditions were right the wireless TTL worked well but trying to underexpose the backgrounds using TTL FP (HSS for Canon) mode was a power sucker and only worked if the flash was very close to the subject. Once I backed off the flash I was underexposing the subject and any FEC applied was useless because the flash was already at full output and struggling due to the 1/2000s shutter speed required to bring the background down in exposure. If I wasn't concerned about the ambient background then I could disable the FP mode and get more power out of the flash, which would allow for smaller apertures or perhaps pulling the light back more but my backgrounds would be overexposed and clipping all over the place.

Based on those tests I knew that using Pocket Wizards and working in manual mode wouldn't change much other than to give me a constant exposure instead of the minute changes that may occur using TTL.

There are also limitations to the size of the modifier you can use with a Speedlight as well as the selection. There are solutions but none are provided directly from the manufacturer and must be purchased separately from third parties. I can mount a Speedlight to a 69" Octa but it's really not a great idea and an awful waste of flash power. You'd more than likely always be at or near full power and will absolutely require an external battery like a Quantum.

Even if you have a Quantum, if you're shooting at full power then you have to be careful of how quickly you fire due to overheating issues in hot shoe flashes. Some flashes like the 580EXII and SB-900 have a built in thermal shutdown and you can be assured that if you fire off a couple of shots at full power and then a few more and a few more, your flash is either going to tell you it's about to shut down or it will shut down. Disabling the thermal shutdown can be done but not really advisable if you're really planning on working the flash much harder than intended.

Of course you can start getting into setups with 2, 3 and 4 flashes firing but that's not for me. I know that for many people it's a great solution but I decided that if my lighting requires more than a Speedlight or my 120J then it's time to get out the big guns.... the Elinchrom 600RX's.

Once again, let me stress that I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to work or what works best for them. We each have a different style, preferences, and are willing to compromise in different areas. For me, I'm just not willing to compromise when it comes to lighting so rather than try to make a small flash do the work of a studio strobe, I'll take the pain in the arse that goes along with moving gear around to have the lighting I need.

When I compare my experience with Speedlight's to the same scenario using strobes and large modifiers I can't because it's not even close. Strobes made my life easy. I had more power than I needed, my recycle times were fast and kept up with me, I had no trouble using a 69" Octa (I borrowed one from a friend and fell in love immediately) and I was able to distance the modifier from the subject and still get beautiful soft light, even the full length shots. I used a CPL and 2 stop ND to reduce the overall amount of light reaching the sensor. The fact that I could combat the Sun for my 2 to 3 stops of background underexposure and was able to open up the lens and shoot at larger apertures made it a cakewalk. :D

I adjusted power of the strobe as needed from the Skyport transmitter and even though I could do that with the Nikon wireless system it requires menu diving if you're not using an SU-800. The large modifier also allows for a larger subject area before the light falls off or natural vignetting occurs. When I use smaller modifiers I have to adjust the modifier more as the model moves or changes poses but the larger modifier gives the model more freedom and allows me to maintain the workflow and vibe.

I'm sure some will be disagreeing with me and that demonstrates how once again there is no one way of doing things and your lighting decisions will be based on your own criteria such as cost, convenience, weight, power output and consumption, indoors or out, time of day, type of shot, number of subjects, etc.... you get the idea.


Robert
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sdipirro
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Apr 05, 2010 13:52 |  #2

Robert, are you using the Tronix Explorer to power the 600RX's on location? Do you find that it works well and is relatively convenient?


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Apr 05, 2010 13:58 |  #3

sdipirro wrote in post #9937511 (external link)
Robert, are you using the Tronix Explorer to power the 600RX's on location? Do you find that it works well and is relatively convenient?

I find it works brilliantly and is amazingly convenient. How's that? :cool:

I did a shoot the other day with a single 600RX ranging from 1/16 to about 1/2 power and for the second time I also used the modeling light on full power for the last 45 minutes of the shoot. I took nearly 600 shots as well as firing the strobes when metering and when I packed up the fuel gauge on the XT SE was still showing green.


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Apr 05, 2010 14:03 |  #4

Rob,
Nice, lucid description.

It has amused me for years, reading fora like this one, how many people want one piece of equipment to satisfy all their requirements.

When I started out in photography (a long time ago :-) ) Things like softboxes etc. didn't even exist. It was more choosing between hot lights and strobes. (Packs and heads.)

Now there are so many options its mind boggling.

You did an outstanding job explaining your reasoning. That's what make a forum like this valuable -- people who think, explaining how they made a decision.

Thanks.


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Apr 05, 2010 14:19 |  #5

Robert - I thought you were using the Ranger system now ?


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Apr 05, 2010 14:23 |  #6

spxxxx wrote in post #9937679 (external link)
Robert - I thought you were using the Ranger system now ?

Hi Simon,

No, I haven't made that move yet. When I budget for gear I always prioritize things that I either need or items I don't already have. Replacing lights and a power supply with a Ranger is a great idea but the cash is better spent on other aspects of the kit.

At some point I do see myself with a Ranger but no time frame yet.


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Apr 05, 2010 14:25 |  #7

Ahh - my mistake - apologies


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Apr 05, 2010 14:27 |  #8

spxxxx wrote in post #9937717 (external link)
Ahh - my mistake - apologies

No problem Simon. We don't talk nearly enough. LOLOL :D


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Apr 05, 2010 14:28 |  #9

Robert, I have to agree with you. When traveling on vacation I resort to my speedlights and I always feel limited. I love carrying my strobes around with portable power. Gives much more freedom.




  
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Vineet666
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Apr 05, 2010 14:33 |  #10

I was carrying a bunch of speedlights and modifiers on location to an extremely hot and sunny city where the biggest religious festival here in India was taking place. I could hardly shoot during the day because of the limited power of the speedlights. All I had to do was wait for the sun to go down so I can begin shooting. But again, carrying battery packs and strobes in such situations would be next to impossible. My assistant and me were struggling to even carry the minimal gear we were handling, because of all the chaos (distanced places, lack of transport, no space in public taxis etc) and not to mention the Police intervening most of the times, if it were not because of speedlights, I could have never got most of these shots.

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Yes, speedlights have limitations, and on top of that I was using Canon Infrared Triggers, not the best solution, I know.. but do you think in the end did it save my butt? Oh yes it did!



  
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Apr 05, 2010 14:45 |  #11

Vineet666 wrote in post #9937773 (external link)
I was carrying a bunch of speedlights and modifiers on location to an extremely hot and sunny city where the biggest religious festival here in India was taking place. I could hardly shoot during the day because of the limited power of the speedlights. All I had to do was wait for the sun to go down so I can begin shooting. But again, carrying battery packs and strobes in such situations would be next to impossible. My assistant and me were struggling to even carry the minimal gear we were handling, because of all the chaos (distanced places, lack of transport, no space in public taxis etc) and not to mention the Police intervening most of the times, if it were not because of speedlights, I could have never got most of these shots.

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Yes, speedlights have limitations, and on top of that I was using Canon Infrared Triggers, not the best solution, I know.. but do you think in the end did it save my butt? Oh yes it did!

Of course it saved your butt and Speedlight's are great in certain situations. I should have specified the word 'Daytime' in the subject of the post because if it were nigh time I could easily get by with a Speedlight or two and some nice high efficiency light modifiers.


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Apr 05, 2010 14:51 |  #12

Robert.
I agree 100% While I always keep a couple of speedlites in my bag for emergency use I find that I rarely use them because of the ability to use larger modifiers on my strobes.




  
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Apr 05, 2010 14:53 |  #13

I like working with strobes more than flashes that why I sold all my yongnuo and nissin flashes after 2 weeks owning them.


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Apr 05, 2010 15:17 |  #14

I've been doing the same type shoots as you Rob. Daytime shots with speed lights you can reach their limitations fairly easily. Good write-up.

If I had the cash, I'd easily get an Elinchrom Ranger setup with a big softbox and a mola beauty dish. That would cover 95% of the shooting I'd want to do.


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Apr 05, 2010 15:25 |  #15

TMR Design wrote in post #9937875 (external link)
Of course it saved your butt and Speedlight's are great in certain situations. I should have specified the word 'Daytime' in the subject of the post because if it were nigh time I could easily get by with a Speedlight or two and some nice high efficiency light modifiers.

One question: Have you tried placing multiple speedlights indside say a shoot-through in harsh daylight? I haven't done it, but say if we place 2 canon 580's, what will be the maximum f-stop one can push upto, at full-power?




  
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For Outdoor Location Work, I'm Sticking With Strobes And Giving Up On Speedlight's
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