There is nothing wrong with saying "You Aren't ready!"

I've seen thread after thread about "My first wedding....".

Some of the posters are prepared but scared and just need encouragement.

And...some are SO not ready to be shooting weddings! When did it become the PC thing to try to have to teach a rookie photographer everything they need to know to shoot a wedding in 1 easy lesson, instead of saying "whoa...take a step back and LEARN flash...LEARN posing...LEARN how to use your camera and DON'T practice on a wedding".

Why is it considered rude to say this? It's true. People should not learn their craft at someone's wedding.

Before you say "everyone has to start somewhere"...yes they do. They should start by LEARNING how to use their camera. Learning how to do the basics. Practicing on friends, family and etc. Getting familiar enough with their gear that they don't need to ask "what settings" etc...because they know enough that EVERY situation requires thoughtful preparation unique to that situation instead of a "green box fits all" photograpahy.

Does this mean no one should have a "first" wedding? Of course not. Everyone DOES have to start somewhere.

However, starting somewhere does not mean: buy a camera, buy a lens, take a few snapshots and shoot a wedding.

I suppose this is a bit of a rant. But it makes me absolutely crazy that honest people will say "you are not ready if you have to ask this..." and get thrashed around here for it.

Can no one accept the truth anymore? Does PC have to rule the day despite disastrous results? Have you seen some (not all) of the "first wedding" photos posted?

Again, I'm not talking about everyone here who's trying to break into the wedding business. I just don't get it that self styled photographers put their own "wants" before their abilities/skill or even their brides.

So I'm asking...WHY is it wrong to say "you aren't ready" when someone clearly isn't? That isn't proud. It isn't shutting someone out...it is being honest. Follow it up with "this is what you need to do..." but for heavens sake, stop giving out "buy this lens" "bounce this flash" and "hope for the best". That does no one any good.

I can feel your pain, and this is one reason why I don't post a lot or spend much time helping people on line anymore. Sad, but nowaday, most just want people to hold their hand and walk them through obstacles in life. Gone was the days when not knowing how to do something means that you need to shut the hell up and listen.

Don't get me wrong. I am very happy to help people.

But there seems to be some confusion with the word "help" anymore.

Instead of analyzing the situation and suggesting the honest next steps, we are expected to say "you go girl" (or "dude you rock") no matter what the problem/skill level etc.

Helping is defined as: to give or provide what is necessary to accomplish a task...

If someone doesn't have what is necc...it's IMPORTANT in their learning experience (and it truly IS helping them) to say "take that step back & learn more".

I'm all the way there with you. And I think a few people here challenge those who have taken on the weighty responsibility of photographing someone's wedding when it's clear they've yet to even crack the binding on the manual for their camera or flash. I especially love the ones who get on and say they know nothing, just accepted a wedding, and want to know if they have the right lens for the job.

Really? The right lens? Have you thought about your plan for the day? Have you visited the sites? Do you know anything about controlling light? Or the elements of composure? Your choice in lens is really the big concern? Ugh.

I know that many on here are aspiring photographers, and cannot wait to jump into the fray. Many who I have read about in the past have an entitlement type of attitude and will not be swayed. It is their right and their latest dream so who is anyone to stand in their way. This type of attitude, in itself shows a disrespect for our field and the amount of skill and knowledge that is needed to take a sacred moment like a wedding and carry it to a successful end. However, conversely, there are too many brides who are more than willing to put on rose colored glasses and see worthiness in these beginners, especially when price is primary and the above all motivating factor in their decision. These brides seldom see how bad their photos turned out for fear of having to admit their poor judgement.

I had a mom come over once with her daughter. She had recently had another daughter get married and wanted to flaunt what she got for 500.00 from a friend of the family. Married daughter also came for support. They proudly opened their walmart album and displayed the photos for me and unmarried daughter to witness. I could not help but smile as unmarried daughter opened one of my albums and bright, clear, colorful images came into view and placed next to dark, fuzzy and dull images which stood out all the more because they were so bad. Even married daughter squirmed, seemed very comfortable, and was not heard from again.

No one saying do not dream, but along with the dream ... study, apprentice, and learn, and hone your craft before you hang your shingle on the door. You owe it to yourself, the profession, and mostly to the customers.

Dave

I feel what we have missing is a very very old tradition of apprenticeship. When I first started my career years ago as a machinist, I was assigned to a master machinist and I apprenticed with him. He watched over me and helped me slowly gain the skills and confidence I would need to work unsupervised.

When I moved on I got the wonderful opportunity to get into photography as a patent photographer. Again, I worked with a master photographer and day by day he taught and I learned. It started out with easy tasks, lugging equipment and setting up, but then moved into more difficult and advanced tasks, and eventually into very complex ones. I can still hear Fritz in his heave German accent going through his checklist before pressing the shutter.

When he felt I was ready, I finally got to shoot my first product alone. He still watched over me for a long time but day by day, as my skills grew, he gave me more responsibility and freedom.

We seem to have lost that concept in many businesses and expect kids right out of college to perform every bit as productive as someone who has been in the business for many years. In photography this seems even more evident as it really takes very little capital to get in the business.

But maybe it's also the changing environment. A few years back when getting into the photography business took some capital and planing and most importantly, there were fewer people trying to get into the business, there were opportunities for young photographers to apprentice with established photographers and learn the business.

Today with so many young photographers in the pool, we are almost expecting someone to buy a camera, a lens or two, a flash, and go out there, shoot, and learn how to use it. Then at some point at their choosing they take the plunge and try their hand at a wedding. That's a really hard way to get into the business.

So maybe what these folks are really doing is using this forum as their master photographer and trying to learn the business any way they can. It's a very tough way to get into a business.

I have been saying this for years... the problem seems to be that people enjoy the facade of helping, yeah... they just love answering people questions about getting into something that is way over their head. I am of course speaking of what is actually happening...training. You can't get training from an internet forum, you can get help, but not TRAINING.

^^This may be a good point. Or it could be that there just isn't readily available info on where a "noob" would go to get this sort of interaction with an experienced photographer; I don't know.

I'm not, personally, interested in getting into weddings (I shot one, by request, that included only the B&G, Justice, me and a bridesmaid...and that gave me a headache); but I don't know of anywhere that I could actually go to 'apprentice' with a more knowledgeable photographer. Outside of school, you can only learn "on the job" but you can't get the job without having learned to do it first. <shrug>

I've really appreciated the comments here.

Without them being addressed to a specific thread, it's easier to see that no one is attacking anyone in particular...just stating that it is important to know what you are doing before you embark.

Thanks for your input.

I haven't met a beginner yet that doesn't harbor the dream of becoming a "professional" photographer. I was that way when I was first starting out in the 1960's and I did weddings in the 1980's and 90's to help get through a couple of periods when I was laid off from my aerospace job. At least I knew what I was getting into and had a number of years of experience behind me.

Somewhere along the line, novice photographers come up with the perception wedding are a quick and easy way to start making money with their photography. How this started, I have no idea but it's been the case even before digital photography came along.

This is an interesting post. I was just getting ready to ask some advice about doing my first wedding session, but maybe I shouldn't.

I have been doing wildlife / landscape photography for about 15 years, with very good success. I started out with help from my father who was in the business. Never really got much into photographing people until recently and have enjoyed it.

I can understand not wanting to help people out who know little or nothing about photography, get into the wedding scene as they could really mess things up and not get a chance for a Re-Do. I even have this fear with lots of photography experience under my belt.

Believe it or not I am not interested in getting rich at this and nor do I want to. I own a small successful manufacturing company, so I have no interest in doing this full time. I just want to offer a good service for our community and make some money to cover my time and equipment.

Anyways, whatever.

Greebe

Greebe, what was your question on wedding photography? If it was something along the lines that we have seen here so much like, "What ISO should i use?" or "What shutter speed" or "RAW vs JPG" then maybe you should do some more reading and working with your camera. The lens issue can be interesting though.

I find it perfectly alright to ask, "im looking to get a fast (telephoto/wide) prime to do task, who has had good experiences with what?"
I think on the other side people get annoyed when people ask, "I have Lens 1 and Lens 2. What should I use for the wedding?" This shows a lack of knowledge about when to use the appropriate tool for the job.

The problem is if you tell them "you're not ready" is most won't listen anyway.

"But i can take great pictures of my cat, my flowers, and my kids. I don't need to know about using flash. I'm a natural light photographer."

And they may even do a decent job, until something goes wrong. It always does. Cameras malfunction, lenses get dropped, lighting is challenging, etc. The list is endless.

Last weekend some friends got married and hired their cousin to do their wedding for free. The cousin didn't bother asking about shooting restrictions inside the chapel and decided she'd use flash since her lenses were too slow. After the first blast of flash, the priest stopped the ceremony. the photographer was told to leave, and the priest informed the rest of us that if one more flash was fired, he would stop the ceremony and the couple would not be married that day.

I'm sure we all have stories like this. Hopefully they didn't all end this badly.

...I volunteered to do the formals with the cousins camera, so at least they would have them.

What sets a true professional apart from the other 1001 Newbies and Part Timers?

Is it what they're capable of producing when everything goes right? Nope... It's what they're capable of producing when everything goes wrong.

When you hire a professional, you aren't paying for their ability simply to make nice pictures. Flickr, SmugMug, PBase, Zenfolio, etc are full of nice pictures. You're paying for their depth and breadth of knowledge and their ability to pull one out of the fire if need be.

If you're being paid to be a photographer, you owe your client the peace of mind that comes from knowing you actually have the T-Shirt that comes from having been there and done that. Doubly so for weddings!

Yes, the people hiring a photographer for their wedding or ANY event should be able to have the peace of mind that they're going to get the best results possible, no matter what.

That's been pretty well said and established here, but how about some suggestions from folks that do have the experience necessary to the new and inexperienced on HOW they can go about getting the experience necessary. One thing I notice in a lot of wedding threads around here is a general sentiment among existing wedding shooters that they don't like having "second" shooters on the job with them.

If experienced shooters aren't willing to do that, then how does a new shooter learn the specifics necessary to be "ready" to shoot a wedding? Recommendations on other styles of shooting that they could do to lead up to doing weddings? Places they could go to hook up with experienced photographers? Things like that.

Good thread, but let's try and give those that aren't ready some ways to solve that issue if and when they DO acknowledge it.