There is nothing wrong with saying "You Aren't ready!"

I think we're singing from the same hymnsheet here

I'm a big critic of Qualifications and those who wear them as the right to be the only one do do X, Y or Z. Some people seem to feel that anyone without a certain qualification should not be allowed to do weddings as if it's some sort of licence. The skill of the photographer will come out...or not.

I would say that if you have any doubts at all, then you shouldn't be the only photographer there! I will have my father with me as second shooter on the day. The couple are getting the extra photographer for free, i'm paying him half the fee and accepting that it's great to have him as a backup. I may shoot the next one on my own.

I'm sure i'll be fine, but i'm also realistic to know that my experience of photography and portraiture is good, but my wedding experience is limited so i'm not taking any chances.

I'm not anywhere NEAR being a professional photographer. I would love to be someday, but I know that it's going to take more than an internet forum to get me there. I think I understand what the OP was getting at.

I look at it this way: I've been a musician for most of my life. When I talk to people who claim to be musicians, but don't know how to read music and just look up tabs online, or watch videos on youtube and learn from there, it makes me mad. I think this is much the same.

As peacefield says above, I think most people think there is some sort of "ABC" formula that they can emulate and come up with the same results...and it's not the case.

Overall, I think the OP is right. Sometimes some people just aren't ready to take such a big step and if they're asking for an opinion, by all means, give them you're honest opinion. Ultimately they are going to do what they want to do, and unfortunately that means a bride & groom on a budget may not have great photos to look back on...but if the B&G really care about quality they will take it upon themselves to do their research and make sure they are making the right decision.

There is a big difference between a guy with a guitar and a guitarist.
There is a big difference between a guy with a camera and a photographer.
I think we can all agree on that. While i have a little different opinion on what a professional means than richie, but i think this thread would be a good reference to those who are looking to shoot their first wedding

pcunite wrote in post #9950428
That is not what a real professional will do, that was a hack with many years of experience. Experience is not the end all that people think it is. You need proper training... Simply repeating the same mistakes over and over again times 100 does not turn one into a professional. There is a hack in my area who claims to having done over 500 weddings. I actually think he is truthful on that part. The sad thing is his work is crap.

Experience IS training!! Experience is a far more beneficial method of learning than a classroom. I come from a family of educators and know that success in the classroom has very little to do with success in the real world. Experience, common sense and the ability to apply what you have learned as well as continue to learn is far more important than completing the requirements of a class syllabus.

Repeating the same mistakes over and over again 100 times simply proves one is incapable or unwilling to learn. If you are unwilling or incapable to learn I don't care if you attend 1,000 classes you are still not going to get any better and if you can't learn from and recognize your own mistakes when you are on your own, you are destined to fail even if you have a PhD.

You acknowledge that a local photographer has probably really done 500+ weddings, which I am guessing has been over a career spanning longer than you have been alive, yet you classify him as a hack? What an arrogant statement and a complete insult to the preferences of many satisfied customers. He must be doing something right, he has customers.

Real hacks don't make it to the 500 wedding level. If they do, anyone with even marginal skill and a good marketing plan should easily be able to be successful in the same area. Instead of calling him a hack, you should be figuring out why you are failing to earn his customers. After all, you've had formal training.

pcunite wrote in post #9951357
Well I didn't think you would. There will be ten threads next week from hacks needing help. Be sure and post away... Let 'em know it is okay to get out and wreck the industry.

WTF are you talking about!! The "hacks" are not going to wreck the industry. Do you think people are going to stop getting married because amateur photographers are taking photos? "Cousin Jenny's photographer did a bad job with her wedding. All future weddings have now been cancelled."

Amateurs are filling the low end market with low cost, lesser quality options for couples. It is no different than what is happening in stock, portrait and sports photography. They are not going away, they will continue to get better and they will continue to cut into the overall market share and be able to effectively complete with more and more mid-level "pros" because they radically alter the cost/quality ratio. Regardless, the industry is going to remain, it is just going to be different.

Get over it, stop crying and figure out a way to produce a better product and market it to people who do still value high level work. Being successful at a higher level is as much, if not more about marketing than technical merits. Last time I checked complaints, insults and arrogance are not typically good marketing strategies.

In my opinion people with attitudes like yours are far more disadvantageous to the profession than Uncle Bob with his Rebel and kit lens. Whining elitists are not helping anybody.

pcunite wrote in post #9951580
Most qualified wedding professionals don't want to live with their mother so they charge what it takes to feed themselves and their family, plus everything else a real business must do. Next...

Actually, many unqualified wedding amateurs don't live with their mom's because they were not crazy enough to get a degree in photography and try to make a living in an industry where anyone with a few thousand dollars can capitalize a startup without being required to have any real certification to do so. They have steady jobs which pay for them to live a comfortable life and take photos because it was a more exciting hobby to them than gardening, boating or a motorcycle. Money is not their motivator, taking photos is and they could care less about your career choice or how it impacts you.

Just because you have a formal education or because it's your dream or passion does not entitle you to success. You have to earn it. As a professional it is your responsibility to find a way to be successful in spite of the obstacles. If you don't have the ability to do it, find another profession and stop blaming others. The only one responsible for failure is you.

Big K wrote in post #9957164
Amateurs are filling the low end market with low cost, lesser quality options for couples. It is no different than what is happening in stock, portrait and sports photography. They are not going away, they will continue to get better and they will continue to cut into the overall market share and be able to effectively complete with more and more mid-level "pros" because they radically alter the cost/quality ratio. Regardless, the industry is going to remain, it is just going to be different.

I agree totally and we've all seen it before...Remember about 20 years ago if you needed a PC repaired, you'd send it to a shop and pay big bucks for it. Then 14yr olds and everyone else started usig PC's for gaming and became really hot on the servicing of them because they fitted their own components. Now for a while everyone knew someone in the family who could build you a new pc or repair it. They were family and /or friends and did it for buttons. Then they did it for others for butttons too. Some still do it for buttons as a sideline for extra income, some do it professionally now and some don't do it anymore except maybe for their own PC. Guess what... My PC-world/Curry's/Newry Computer Centre etc is still in business. Sure i still get Young Billy down the street to sevice my PC, but the big players are still there. The "Industry" is changed now, i can leave the pc into PC World and get it done for £80 or Billy from down the street'll do it for £40.

Big K wrote in post #9957164
Actually, many unqualified wedding amateurs don't live with their mom's because they were not crazy enough to get a degree in photography and try to make a living in an industry where anyone with a few thousand dollars can capitalize a startup without being required to have any real certification to do so. They have steady jobs which pay for them to live a comfortable life and take photos because it was a more exciting hobby to them than gardening, boating or a motorcycle. Money is not their motivator, taking photos is and they could care less about your career choice or how it impacts you.

Hehehe Glad someone said it. Cos it's true. I can spend maybe a week on the net or reading books and playing about with a camera and learn more than someone in their first year of doing a "Higher National Diploma" in Photography. I know this cos my daughter is doing it and if i wasn't helping her, she'd be shootig in full auto still. If someone spends $xxxx on photography courses and at the end i bought a $35 book and i'm better, who's the Pro? (A word i hate cos it's so misused anyway, like it's a driving licence for being really good at something.)
The only thing qualifications are good for is getting a job for someone else. Self employment doesn't need em, just ability.

Big K wrote in post #9957164
Just because you have a formal education or because it's your dream or passion does not entitle you to success. You have to earn it. As a professional it is your responsibility to find a way to be successful in spite of the obstacles. If you don't have the ability to do it, find another profession and stop blaming others. The only one responsible for failure is you.

I really love you....Would you like to go to dinner and we can get married after dessert?

Some things experience has taught me are how to see light, how to choose a lens based on the perspective I want to acheive, how to make a beautiful bridal portrait even in the crappiest hotel conference room, and on and on. The most valuable thing though has nothing to do with being a solid shooter, and that is that you don't have to be a solid shooter to make it as a wedding photographer. You have to be a good business person - a marketer. Plenty of mediocre photographers are getting business because they know how to promote themselves, not because they are great at what they do. Brides are not an educated client, like an art director would be when buying commercial work. After a while, lots of wedding works starts to look alike to them, and it has become commoditized (is that a word?), so it comes down to promoting yourself. If you can do both, that's awesome, but being a good shooter is not like a Field of Dreams where if you build a portfolio, they will come.

If someone new is serious about making money shooting, my first advice would be to learn how to market yourself and focus on that as much as learning to shoot well. Knowing how to shoot well only counts if you are getting hired.

Philco wrote in post #9961810
Knowing how to shoot well only counts if you are getting hired.

And if you are a good markerter then the ability to shoot well would be a useful thing, dont you think otherwise it would probably be false advertising

richy5497 wrote in post #9961620
I really love you....Would you like to go to dinner and we can get married after dessert?

Only if we get an uneducated hack photographer doing their first wedding to cover our special day.

Big K wrote in post #9963427
Only if we get an uneducated hack photographer doing their first wedding to cover our special day.

But you're an uneducated consumer so how will you know if your photographer is a "hack" or not?

And it's not like the public is entitled to any level of expectation, right?

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #9963481
But you're an uneducated consumer so how will you know if your photographer is a "hack" or not?

I figure we will just hire them from pcunite's market. That should guarantee they are a world class hack and allow me to float along unbothered in my blissful world of idiocy, enjoying my day with my special someone.

Underexposed and blurry is artistic isn't it? Oh well, it doesn't matter as long as I get a tilted shot of our feet with a nice white vignette and the bouquet being the only thing in color.

Big K wrote in post #9963598
I figure we will just hire them from pcunite's market. That should guarantee they are a world class hack and allow me to float along unbothered in my blissful world of idiocy, enjoying my day with my special someone.

Underexposed and blurry is artistic isn't it? Oh well, it doesn't matter as long as I get a tilted shot of our feet with a nice white vignette and the bouquet being the only thing in color.

Note to self: Do a tilted shot of feet in case all else goes wrong.

and We'll know he's a hack cos we'll have change from a fiver :P