Flash question

Hi guys, here is the situation.

I shoot my son`s Teakwondo once every 2 months, so my camera body is not really good at taking sport event like this. I`m 95% outdoor shooter.

Here are the sample pics. @70mm focal length using my 5Dc and 24-70L lens without a flash. (I don`t have a flash yet, that is why I`m posting here.)

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The 270ex is really meant for the G series. Its not really powerful enough to do much for you. Either save for a 430ex, or look at the YN flashes with ettl. YN465 or YN467.

AWGD8 wrote in post #10020136
Hi guys, here is the situation.

I shoot my son`s Teakwondo once every 2 months, so my camera body is not really good at taking sport event like this. I`m 95% outdoor shooter.

Here are the sample pics. @70mm focal length using my 5Dc and 24-70L lens without a flash. (I don`t have a flash yet, that is why I`m posting here.)

http://img63.imageshac​k.us/img63/2090/twd11.​jpg

http://img694.imagesha​ck.us/img694/9153/twd9​.jpg

I don`t shoot portrait at all, so do you guys think a 270x speedlight will be enough in this kind of environment? or should I save for the 430EX II (Do I really need this much?)

BTW, I`m on a budget and can`t afford another faster crop body.

You should get yourself at least the 430EX and then use it by bouncing the flash off the ceiling. Bouncing the flash off the ceiling will give you a wider range of evenly lit flash coverage (front to back). Bouncing, however, requires more power than when shooting with the flash pointed directly forward.

Thanks for response guys. Do you think, bouncing the flash off the ceiling will work here? The Gym ceiling is like 2.5 storey high?

What about 2 flashes on lightstands on either side of the gym with remote triggers?

versedmb wrote in post #10020524
What about 2 flashes on lightstands on either side of the gym with remote triggers?

I`m not sure if they will allow it or else.

Have you considered a Sigma EF530 given the light output you're looking for?
Both the ST and Super have a guide # that's twice the 270 and you can probably find a gently used one for the same price as a 270.

evanger371 wrote in post #10020660
Have you considered a Sigma EF530 given the light output you're looking for?
Both the ST and Super have a guide # that's twice the 270 and you can probably find a gently used one for the same price as a 270.

The Sigma looks promising.... Thanks!

AWGD8 wrote in post #10020418
Thanks for response guys. Do you think, bouncing the flash off the ceiling will work here? The Gym ceiling is like 2.5 storey high?

What settings did you use to shoot the sample images you posted. I shoot a lot of karate pictures for my son and grandson and most of the time, I just shoot available light without a flash. I shoot with the 1DmkIII, the 5DmkII and/or the 7D (depending on my mood ) with the camera set to either ISO 800 or 1600. But this is in a dojo which is lit better than most gyms are ordinarily.

A 2.5 story high ceiling shouldn't really be a problem if the ceiling is white and you are using a higher ISO. The 580EX would work better than the 430EX, though.

PacAce wrote in post #10020712
What settings did you use to shoot the sample images you posted. I shoot a lot of karate pictures for my son and grandson and most of the time, I just shoot available light without a flash. I shoot with the 1DmkIII, the 5DmkII and/or the 7D (depending on my mood ) with the camera set to either ISO 800 or 1600. But this is in a dojo which is lit better than most gyms are ordinarily.

A 2.5 story high ceiling shouldn't really be a problem if the ceiling is white and you are using a higher ISO. The 580EX would work better than the 430EX, though.

This was the first time I shot in a highschool gym using a DLSR.
I think I used ISO600 and f2.8 on a 5dc. Shutter was around 1/200 or less. I shoot in RAW so I could bump the exposure better during PP. AI focus was used also. Don`t take my words, I got a very low keeper`s rate on this event.

Next time I`ll go for ISO 1000-1600 and keep the shutter at 1/500 sec or more if possible. I just need a flash for better focusing to increase my keeper`s rate.
My problem was, the 5Dc is not great in focusing fast moving subject(I think I was also at fault using a slower shutter speed). Second problem is me, I`m a landscape guy and when I click the shutter, I do 3 clicks and stop....So I missed the action. LOL!

AWGD8 wrote in post #10020859
This was the first time I shot in a highschool gym using a DLSR.
I think I used ISO600 and f2.8 on a 5dc. Shutter is around 1/200 or less. I shoot in RAW so I could bump the exposure better during PP. AI focus was used also. Don`t take my words, I got a very low keeper`s rate on this event.

Next time I`ll go for ISO 1000-1600 and keep the shutter at 1/500 sec or more if possible. I just need a flash for better focusing to increase my keeper`s rate.
My problem was, the 5Dc is not great in focusing fast moving subject(I think I was also at fault using a slower shutter speed). Second problem is me, I`m a landscape guy and when I click the shutter, I do 3 clicks and stop....So I missed the action. LOL!

I have one tip for you regarding your shutter speed. If you're going to be shooting available light in the gym, be sure to keep your shutter speed at or below 1/125 or you're going to get gradual dimming on the frame. This has to do with the kind of lighting that's used in gyms. If you'r going to be using a flash and most of the light is coming the flash, then the shutter speed won't be much of an issue.

Re missing out on the action, when you've done several sessions shooting the sport, you'll become familiar with the basic moves and learn to anticipate the "high points" of the different moves and be ready for it.

Regarding the stopping of motion with a fast shutter or a flash, I'm not a real fan of freezing motion. I tend to like slower shutter speed to capture the motion blur of the moves. I think it makes the picture look more dynamic. But that's just my preference. Other people like crisp, sharp images with all motion frozen in time.

I've never been to TaeKwonDo event where flash was allowed, until AFTER event; for group awards photos.
In most cases, ISO 3200 @ f/2.8 barely yields shutter speed sufficient to freeze motion. It's usually a place where an 85mm f/1.8, shot at f/2, or something similar, works well. Pay attention to do CWB before event, because WB errors in mixed light lead to exposure errors.

Sometimes, with young kids, or better lit places, ISO 1600 @ f/2.8 will suffice. Here's descriptive shoots; shutter doesn't matter:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu/uploads/BlackBelt%​5F07.jpg
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …/VictoryTaeKwon​Do%5F1.jpg
1/320 is enough to freeze splinters with slower moving youth:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …tTest%5FGirl%5F​1%5F08.jpg
But 1/320 is NOT sufficient when mature youth fly. Sorry for bad framing. 1/640 may have still not been fast enough here:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …eltTest%5FJoshu​a%5F12.jpg
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …eltTest%5FJoshu​a%5F13.jpg

PacAce wrote in post #10020933
I have one tip for you regarding your shutter speed. If you're going to be shooting available light in the gym, be sure to keep your shutter speed at or below 1/125 or you're going to get gradual dimming on the frame. This has to do with the kind of lighting that's used in gyms. If you'r going to be using a flash and most of the light is coming the flash, then the shutter speed won't be much of an issue.

Re missing out on the action, when you've done several sessions shooting the sport, you'll become familiar with the basic moves and learn to anticipate the "high points" of the different moves and be ready for it.

Regarding the stopping of motion with a fast shutter or a flash, I'm not a real fan of freezing motion. I tend to like slower shutter speed to capture the motion blur of the moves. I think it makes the picture look more dynamic. But that's just my preference. Other people like crisp, sharp images with all motion frozen in time.

Thanks for the tip. I prefer to do both freeze and blur. The freeze, I can do great when they are all standing and not moving! LOL!

J Rabin wrote in post #10020947
I've never been to TaeKwonDo event where flash was allowed, until AFTER event; for group awards photos.
In most cases, ISO 3200 @ f/2.8 barely yields shutter speed sufficient to freeze motion. It's usually a place where an 85mm f/1.8, shot at f/2, or something similar, works well. Pay attention to do CWB before event, because WB errors in mixed light lead to exposure errors.

Sometimes, with young kids, or better lit places, ISO 1600 @ f/2.8 will suffice. Here's descriptive shoots; shutter doesn't matter:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu/uploads/BlackBelt%​5F07.jpg
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …/VictoryTaeKwon​Do%5F1.jpg
1/320 is enough to freeze splinters with slower moving youth:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …tTest%5FGirl%5F​1%5F08.jpg
But 1/320 is NOT sufficient when mature youth fly. Sorry for bad framing. 1/640 may have still not been fast enough here:
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …eltTest%5FJoshu​a%5F12.jpg
http://postit.rutgers.​edu …eltTest%5FJoshu​a%5F13.jpg

Cool shots! Were these taken in a typical highschool gym?

I had my Sigma 50mm f1.4 that day also, but It was hard to predict where my son will end up in the formation. This time the 70mm is what I had. The Sigmalux is too wide that time so I didn`t bother to remove it in the bag.

Some in gym, some rented venues, some TaeKwonDo studio (mostly FL lights). Gyms usually worst lit venues because of gas vapor lighting. Not so much cycling, which is bad enough, but limited output spectrum of gas vapor lights makes for ugly light, no matter white balance effort. It's like swim meets.

I have plenty of shots where shutter is slowed down to accentuate movement, like on edge of a foot, or hand snapping. That's like 1/125, depending on focal length. Most people like balance of their features 'crispy.'

On your 35mm camera, see if you can borrow a 135mm f/2L from a friend, and shoot wide open. Center FP only. All mine were shot 1D Mk II, where peripheral points were still able to acquire subject fast.