Everyone's a pro nowadays.

Look, anyone that has been in the business long enough knows that in order to be successful and be happy at this type of work you have to like what you are doing. Pick a niched and only do that, plus it has to be something needed in your area.

I disagree with having to be a pro to take excellent pictures. I do not claim to be a pro and I take excellent portraits and of nature. I have never taken a class my whole life. I get paid for them and I do not have to hard sell. I keep it fun for me and my clients and they refer others and keep coming back. I don't charge cheap either, I charge a session fee and just barely above what it cost is to have the photos processed anywhere for purchase. If you are good, and people love your work, you will make money.

I work when I want to.

You have to remember who you are working for and what they want. Sometimes a photo that you think is ugly is the one they may like the most just because of the way the picture caught a look, etc. I have had this happen quite a bit. People do not look for what we look for, they look for sentimental value, the look and the feeling of happiness and/or oneness in the photo, or whatever else the case may be. If your client is happy, they will pay you what you are worth. I have never had anyone complain about my prices, not once.

Anyone who gets paid for their work is a pro; I think if we used the word "Mastery" things would become clearer.

How many here have a Mastery of photography, raise your hand, and now those who are Pros please raise yours?

As you can see. There are more pros than masters here,,, and some masters are not even pros.

That is probably true.

"To know the work we are called to do in this world, we must know ourselves. This is what makes work sweet."
Bell Hooks

Tadaaa wrote in post #10090386
Anyone who gets paid for their work is a pro

So not true... Many people take $$$ for piss poor work, doesn't make them a pro, it makes them a sh*t shoveler.

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10090642
So not true... Many people take $$$ for piss poor work, doesn't make them a pro, it makes them a sh*t shoveler.

I am pretty sure quality of work has nothing to do with professional or not. There are plenty amateurs who have work better than many professional. It all has to do on whether you make your living doing it or not.

I would not call names at people whoa re paid to do what you would consider poor work. IF the clients pay for it and it is acceptable to them, the photographer is doing his job and making money to survive by.

themadman wrote in post #10090656
I am pretty sure quality of work has nothing to do with professional or not. There are plenty amateurs who have work better than many professional. It all has to do on whether you make your living doing it or not.

I would not call names at people whoa re paid to do what you would consider poor work. IF the clients pay for it and it is acceptable to them, the photographer is doing his job and making money to survive by.

We've had this discussion before. You believe as you do, I believe as I do. The fact remains that once you get to a certain level (commercial) feelings have little to do with it, crap work won't pass.

I'd feel confident in saying that the $$$ paid via pick up work from average joes is not paying someone's rent, unless maybe they pumping out 10+ shoots a month or maybe if they are doing weddings which is another story all together.

You aren't going to get many high end weddings shooting off a Rebel and kit lens nor without recommendations.... Though to your point, I guess maybe I was hinting at experience more than being a professional....

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #10021088
Having a big pair will take you farther than having a strong portfolio. It's sad, but it's true. If you talk the talk and can convince others that you walk the walk, you will succeed.

Humility has no place in the conversation.

"Often the perception of knowledge and ability is more important than knowledge and ability itself"

-James T. Kirk

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10090971
We've had this discussion before. You believe as you do, I believe as I do. The fact remains that once you get to a certain level (commercial) feelings have little to do with it, crap work won't pass.

I'd feel confident in saying that the $$$ paid via pick up work from average joes is not paying someone's rent, unless maybe they pumping out 10+ shoots a month or maybe if they are doing weddings which is another story all together.

You aren't going to get many high end weddings shooting off a Rebel and kit lens....

I agree with this as well to a point, but its symbiotic. You cant have one without the other. Once you reach a certain level you have to have the product AND the ability to sell the product.

Having a great product means nothing without being able to sell it, having sales ability without a sale-able product means nothing.

Now the issue is "what is sale-able", that is a arguable point.

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10090642
So not true... Many people take $$$ for piss poor work, doesn't make them a pro.

Professional

Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>


Mastery

Possession or display of great skill or technique b : skill or knowledge that makes one master of a subject : command

Brain Mechanic wrote in post #10027248
I agree!! Its sad, at least for me, that I have found this arrogant attitude to be more common among photographers!! Thank God this site seems to bean exception. I was lurking around on another well known photography site and I just couldnt believe the language used, the lack of respect towards other members....it was insane! These people were acting as if they were literally born with a camera up theirs...you know! LOL!

Yeah.. this site is better than some others. I was on another site recently, and I saw this post:

Well at least that idiot got banned.

Tadaaa wrote in post #10091032
Professional

Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>


Mastery

Possession or display of great skill or technique b : skill or knowledge that makes one master of a subject : command

Dictionary definitions are fine and dandy, now apply it to real life.

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10091044
Dictionary definitions are fine and dandy, now apply it to real life.

ummm,,, ok,

(Photography) Professional

Participating for gain or livelihood in Photography, while being an activity often engaged in by amateurs <a professional photographer> b : having photography as a permanent career <a professional photographer> c : Photography engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional photographer>


Mastery (of Photography)

Possession or display of great skill or technique in Photography b : skill or knowledge of photography that makes one a master of photography : command of photography

Well Played!

Tadaaa wrote in post #10091072
ummm,,, ok,

(Photography) Professional

Participating for gain or livelihood in Photography

b : having photography as a permanent career

So, by the dictionary definitions, unless they are supporting themselves via their photography, they aren't professionals. I guess that disqualifies Jane the high school student that got paid 100 bux to shoot her class trip for the school. Imagine that.

MichaelBernard wrote in post #10091149
So, by the dictionary definitions, unless they are supporting themselves via their photography, they aren't professionals. I guess that disqualifies Jane the high school student that got paid 100 bux to shoot her class trip for the school. Imagine that.

According to Webster, not me, a subject simply needs to be, "engaged in by persons receiving financial return," it doesn't say how profitable one must be; keep in mind there are multiple definitions for this word... you only need to fit in the parameters of one of the definitions in order to define yourself as the given word.

Hence:

One can be a professional garbage man if that is what he is paid to do; it doesn't mean he is necessarily good at it, but he can indeed call himself a professional if he receives financial return for his effort. One can call them self a Professional accountant and be horrible at accounting, and certainly one can call them-self a professional photographer and lack mastery of the subject, again as long as they make some sort of financial return for their efforts., etc., etc.

Merriam-Webster
professional

Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>
— pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb