Steve Jobs pens open letter about Flash

Don't worry I won't Just addressing Tony-S' question of why it's ironic

blackshadow wrote in post #10110960
Here are a couple of examples.

If you buy an ipod and want to have mp3s on your PC you are forced to install itunes on your computer which tends to try to take over things.

Apple will not approve "adult entertainment" apps for the istore.

Incorrect.

There are other alternatives. I use MediaMonkey.

Tony-S wrote in post #10452960
Android botnet that Google had to issue a kill switch for. Fortunately for them, it was produced to demonstrate how easy Adroid can be compromised and without malicious intent.

About 20% of Android apps harvest personal data.

MPEG H.264 is an open standard and the entity that controls it has committed to low cost licensing. They are not interested in making big profits, they are interested in open web standards (unlike Adobe and Microsoft). With Flash, you're at Adobe's mercy and they clearly ARE interested in making profits.

That's "Kool-Aid". Unless you really mean that Apple products are cool.

Calling the 300 phones that downloaded a supposed "proof-of-concept" app is far from a bot-net. On top of which, there is a way to kill any app that might be malicious. There have been multiple apps on the iTunes store that offered updates, only to find those updates allowed you to view porn, etc. - this is really no different.

If I remember correctly, wasn't there a hacker who claimed he could access iPhones, listen to active conversations even if the phone wasn't making a call, and watch you with the camera? I'm saying this because the simple fact remains that no OS is bulletproof. There are few if any viruses for Apple products because they represent like 5% or less of all computers. Why bother? It's the same for Linux. And why write a virus for an iPhone? There's not really any good data to steal. Most viruses make money for their writers by convincing the infected to "buy an anti-virus to get rid of this virus." That's not going to happen on a phone.

That CNET article was changed as follows: "Updated 4:30 p.m. PDT to change headline to reflect that SMobile says it isn't criticizing the Android model and Updated 10:30 a.m. PDT to change misleading headline and add information throughout stating that users are granting permission to apps when they download them." Enough said.

HTML5 isn't going to replace Flash, no matter how much Apple and its legion hope. http://techcrunch.com …-on-flash-vs-html5-video/

I used to own an iPhone. It was great. Then I bought an Android phone and realized what I had been missing. Apple keeps its system closed so that you have to buy everything from them, through the iTunes store. Unpublished APIs don't make them any money. If you can play a free Flash game, you're not going to buy their game apps. If you can watch a movie or TV show on Flash, you're not going to be buying videos encoded in proprietary formats. It's that simple. Apple keeps its system closed so it can make money. Period. They disguise it all as "end-user experience" and sure, it results in that. They do provide a good end-user experience. At a cost.

merlin2375 wrote in post #10454313
It's ironic because one of Jobs' biggest complaint was that Adobe wasn't a good product because it may be a little slow or consume too much battery power. At least Adobe didn't let their product go out with a critical flaw like Apple did.

Adobe's had years to "fix" (or dump) Flash, yet they keep it going. It's not ready for mobile devices.

I guess you didn't read Jobs' position on Flash. Flash is an invitation to poor performance and hackers. Apple doesn't want people calling its customer service to deal with an Adobe problem.

This problem is minimal and will be fixed one way or another. That's Apple's history and they'll take care of it.

leroy_sunset wrote in post #10455371
Calling the 300 phones that downloaded a supposed "proof-of-concept" app is far from a bot-net.

Nonetheless, it shows that it could be done and exposed a vulnerability.

Are you referring to a jailbroken iPhone? I've never head of anything like that for an OEM iPhone.

I said it was relatively bulletproof compared to Android and the Google App Store model. Even bulletproof vests aren't completely bulletproof.

Unix is inherently more secure than most OSs.

But there's still a greater risk of compromising an Android phone than an iPhone at this point. Maybe Android will catch up, but if you have a free-for-all installation process you will always be at greater risk.

HTML5 isn't going to replace Flash, no matter how much Apple and its legion hope. http://techcrunch.com …-on-flash-vs-html5-video/

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it's beginning to look like it's a foregone conclusion that h.264 will be adopted by W3C as the video codec for HTML5. HTML5 is still in progress and I'm sure those issues that YouTube has will be ironed out. Flash is proprietary and VP8 clearly violates h.264 IP.

I can see clearly we won't agree, but I'm OK with that. It's just good discussion.

There are three main points:

A) Openness/Customer Choice: I once again reiterate, I DO NOT need Apple helping me decide what products perform well and which one's done. This anti-competitive, anti-customer-focused attitude is exactly what led Apple to the brink of bankruptcy the first time around and rather than learn from their mistakes, Apple is destined to repeat those very same mistakes. Trying to take a tighter death grip on the hardware and the software is not a good strategy and it stifles innovation. Who cares about the iPhone 4, Droid, being open, has tons of manufacturers working on phones. New phones will be released burying the iphone. Can you imagine the furor if Microsoft tried to tell you what applications you could run on Windows? Lawsuits, etc in 2 seconds or less, guaranteed.

B) Flash as a product: Flash is NOT THAT DAMN BAD as much as Apple wants you to tell you it is. I think it's not the perfect product clearly. But it's out there COMPETING. So why can't Apple get out there and compete with it's products rather than trying to win by closing the platform. This point doesn't matter as much as B. If Apple were right and Flash were that bad it wouldn't be as ubiquitous as it is today. And from what I understand, Adobe is constantly improving the flash platform and making it better for mobile.

C) Really worried about performance or just serving yourself? Apple doesn't want people calling about Flash's poor performance? Perhaps they shouldn't have agreed to sell their phone on the awful AT&T network or is that only OK because it serve's Apple's purpose. Please.

I'm not saying iPhone has to include the flash client by default (much like FireFox does not) but there's no viable argument for why the user should be allowed to make that decision for his or herself.

And that's just the beginning. Blocking Google out of the ad network on the iPhone as well as the "app approval process, as well as the ridiculous cut Apple takes on Apps just add to the stupidity of the strategy. Then there's iTunes...

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
Adobe's had years to "fix" (or dump) Flash, yet they keep it going. It's not ready for mobile devices.

I have Flash on my Nexus One. It's not perfect, but it functions. That means if I'm out and about, and I want to see a menu at a local restaurant whose site is in Flash, I can. iPhone users can't. Play crazy games, not yet. But I don't play games on my phone.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
I guess you didn't read Jobs' position on Flash. Flash is an invitation to poor performance and hackers. Apple doesn't want people calling its customer service to deal with an Adobe problem.

How does Flash invite hackers? There hasn't been a virus in embedded Flash videos for like a decade. Poor performance, maybe.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
This problem is minimal and will be fixed one way or another. That's Apple's history and they'll take care of it.

The antenna is not a big deal, but it sure makes them look stupid.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
Nonetheless, it shows that it could be done and exposed a vulnerability.

Just like apps from the iTunes store. There have been lots of apps that had "easter eggs" that would have otherwise been banned. A bad program will slip past Apple's nebulous approval process some day. It happens.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
Are you referring to a jailbroken iPhone? I've never head of anything like that for an OEM iPhone.

It was not a jailbroken iPhone. I can't seem to find the article in a 30-second google search, but I saw it on the news and I read about it. CNN I think. They showed the guy hacking in. Likely that hole has been plugged long ago.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
I said it was relatively bulletproof compared to Android and the Google App Store model. Even bulletproof vests aren't completely bulletproof.

"The iOS is nearly bulletproof in comparison" is what you said. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm saying there's basically no incentive for hackers to find out because there's not a lot of money to be made writing an iPhone virus. Not unless they are able to parlay the media coverage into a job, like the Goatse Security guys that grabbed all those iPad users' email addresses. Oops, AT&T strikes again.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
Unix is inherently more secure than most OSs.

I'm not really sure what bearing this has on the discussion.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
But there's still a greater risk of compromising an Android phone than an iPhone at this point. Maybe Android will catch up, but if you have a free-for-all installation process you will always be at greater risk.

Sure, I will agree that there's a greater risk. But there is also a way for Google to kill those bad apps. On an iPhone, once downloaded, Apple can do nothing about a malicious app. Not that I want Google messing with my phone, but if push came to shove, they'd be able to stop a problem.

Tony-S wrote in post #10455853
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it's beginning to look like it's a foregone conclusion that h.264 will be adopted by W3C as the video codec for HTML5. HTML5 is still in progress and I'm sure those issues that YouTube has will be ironed out. Flash is proprietary and VP8 clearly violates h.264 IP.

I guess on the Flash front, it's just silly to think that with the relatively small market share Apple has in the computing world, they'd be able to change the use of Flash. Delusions of grandeur, I tell you. Not to be morose, but once Jobs dies when that new pancreas gives out, Apple shares will plummet and there won't be anyone to pull them out of the spin. I do hope Flash is gone by then, but I doubt it will be supplanted by some hair-brained scheme dreamed up by Steve Jobs to keep his customers at the Apple trough.

Case in point: http://blogs.forbes.co​m …security-bugs-than-apple/

Tony-S wrote in post #10453757
That's fine, but you're probably less than 5% of users that want to take on that burden.

I think more than 5%, Android marketshare is growing fast in Australia only 6 months ago they were unheard of (almost) now they are flying off shelves and new models coming up like crazy.. They are growing in the US and EU too..

It is also screened to see it fits steve jobs personal standards of what his consumers are allowed to use and to ensure it doesn't compete with a feature they wish to add themselves, or have licenced another company to supply.

Apple is all about closed systems and heavy handed control of their system and any retailer wanting to sell their products (with borderline price fixing done through so called advertising rebates). They only want to destroy this 'closed standard' one as they are not the ones making money off it.. They will make money off h.264 once they have destroyed flash pretending to be the champions of open source, wait and see.

Of course they said that.

They were not in trouble over IE for the fact that it didn't meet standards they got in trouble for bundling it into their OS and making it impossible to uninstall.. Using their dominate OS position to force their other software onto the market.. Apple is already under investigation for multiple anti-competitive issues, it is just a matter of size. Once they are big enough (they are pretty much there) their actions will be called into question and they will be in trouble too just like MS.. They are as bad as each other (adobe too) and anyone saying one is any different is just blinded by fan-boyism..

Of course and Theroa, everything breaks Software Patents in America, they exist to ensure only large corporations like Adobe, MS, Apple etc etc can compete within the market and any smaller companies once the big boys feel threatened can be destroyed using the myriad of overly broad software patents..

Actually originally Theora was gong to be in the recommended html5 standards for video as it is truly open, but MS and APPLE put an end to that as they wanted the standard they controlled to be adopted, not something they couldn't make money off down the track.

Moreheat on Flash. It'll be a minor thing in 5 years.

Tony-S wrote in post #10505243
Moreheat on Flash. It'll be a minor thing in 5 years.

I'm betting the iPhone and Ipad will too!

That's because we'll be on to the next and greatest thing from Steve Jobs' loins by then!

Tony-S wrote in post #10505243
Moreheat on Flash. It'll be a minor thing in 5 years.

This isn't heat on Flash. Flash is not allowed to compete with this or any other competitor on the Apple platforms per Steve Jobs.

I'm all for competition. I'm not for closing the platform down so that an inferior product can thrive or survive because no one else is on the playing field.

Do you know how to recognize an Apple user?

...

He tells you.

Looks like Flash 10.1 is still junk.

http://blog.laptopmag.​com …-player-proves-jobs-right

Tony-S wrote in post #10769493
Looks like Flash 10.1 is still junk.

http://blog.laptopmag.​com …-player-proves-jobs-right

Is anyone really surprised?

Adobe's turning out to be the closest resemblance of Microsoft, closer than any other software company. Embrace and Extend.