Frustrated with learning process

My camera is in M mode, I'm not letting myself take it off until I learn it!

Here is what is happening....

I will set the f stop, speed, and ISO until the meter says everything is correct. I will take a picture, then I turn a bit to the left, or turn around completely (same room) and suddenly the meter says its not correct (because things such as windows are throwing the meter off), so I adjust speed usually, sometimes ISO. I try to do it quickly so I don't lose the shot (this is where I start to get really flustered). What I get at the end of the shoot is pictures that are all over the place exposure wise. Most being too dark or too light. Every single one has trouble areas, such as a face being totally dark, but a white shirt being very bright. I try to adjust this in LR, but its exhausting. I would much rather get the proper exposure in the camera and then do minor adjustments.

So I should meter from a gray card, and then leave the camera on those settings unless I completely change rooms or go outside?

IGNORE THE METER!!! Chasing the meter is just shooting on auto but using your fingers to select the settings! The meter can and will be fooled by extreme bright and dark.

Take a setting for a room by exposing the background correctly (unless there is a huge difference between light and dark spots in the room - over 1EV). Do not change that - you have set your camera for ambient light. Not it doesnt matter if you have black and white in the same frame in front of you - you will have a constant exposure. If there is over a 1EV difference within the room make a note of the different settings and use them accordingly - DO NOT CHANGE THE SETTINGS FOR YOUR SUBJECT - only for the ambient light.

neilwood32 wrote in post #10160087
IGNORE THE METER!!! Chasing the meter is just shooting on auto but using your fingers to select the settings! The meter can and will be fooled by extreme bright and dark.

Take a setting for a room by exposing the background correctly (unless there is a huge difference between light and dark spots in the room - over 1EV). Do not change that - you have set your camera for ambient light. Not it doesnt matter if you have black and white in the same frame in front of you - you will have a constant exposure. If there is over a 1EV difference within the room make a note of the different settings and use them accordingly - DO NOT CHANGE THE SETTINGS FOR YOUR SUBJECT - only for the ambient light.

Ahhhh! I'm already confused! How do I know the background is exposed properly? Just by looking on the screen? I still get pictures where the background looks normal, but those extremes I'm talking about still look awful in the picture. Example of this is outside. The grass will look properly exposed, but (in this instance) the black/white dog looks way too dark (black head) or too bright (white body). I'm sorry if I sound really stupid...but this is where my original post started. I get really confused and it's hard to type out exactly what I mean.

You'll get it, it will all come together, be persistent and patient. Work on your metering skills in camera (I spot meter). Go out and shot a lot of test shots. Learn how to adjust exposure for white and black and try and learn what would be middle gray. With the black and white dog you have to decide on what you want detail in, the black or the white. Also realize that that the white you see is diffused reflection, detail in black is direct reflection, so to get a good exposure for the dog, the lighting itself has to be from a proper angle. Buy "Light: Science and Magic", it covers more than just lighting.

Shoot, shoot and shoot some more. Learn to ETR.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160033
My camera is in M mode, I'm not letting myself take it off until I learn it!

Here is what is happening....

I will set the f stop, speed, and ISO until the meter says everything is correct.

This is the mistake. I am guessing when you say "everything is correct" you mean the exposure meter is in the middle? This is hardly correct. You are still allowing the camera to make the decision in what is the "correct" exposure. You realize if you are in M mode and you always set the exposure meter to the middle, you are essentially in automatic mode right?

Once you get this concept, I am 100% sure it will open things up for you.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160033
I will take a picture, then I turn a bit to the left, or turn around completely (same room) and suddenly the meter says its not correct (because things such as windows are throwing the meter off), so I adjust speed usually, sometimes ISO.

Window light is one thing. Let's take a simpler example. Assume there's no harsh directional light coming into the room. Let's say the black dog is "throwing the meter off". Think about it. Has the lighting changed? Nope. What's throwing the meter off is the darkness of the dog relative to neutral gray. The camera will see the dark black dog and think it needs to overexpose to compensate for it. The problems is, the lighting never changed, just the subjects color. Same thing with a white dress. It's bright and the camera thinks it needs to underexpose. Again, an incorrect assumption by the camera.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160033
I try to do it quickly so I don't lose the shot (this is where I start to get really flustered). What I get at the end of the shoot is pictures that are all over the place exposure wise. Most being too dark or too light. Every single one has trouble areas, such as a face being totally dark, but a white shirt being very bright. I try to adjust this in LR, but its exhausting. I would much rather get the proper exposure in the camera and then do minor adjustments.

Shooting into window light will always be problematic if you are doing things quickly and you are going from room light to the harsh directional window light. With experience you will know how much to compensate for it, but it won't be instantaneous. It also depends on what you want to expose for. Expose for the window light if you want a silhouette. Expose for the subject and you will blow out the window light. If you want to expose both properly, expose for the window light, and use fill flash for the subject. There are many ways to skin a cat.

My rule of thumb is, if lighting is consistent, then shoot in M because you don't want things like color of clothing, glare from glass or shiny objects, etc. to throw off the camera.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160033
So I should meter from a gray card, and then leave the camera on those settings unless I completely change rooms or go outside?

You can, if you have the time to take readings. Check your histogram has well. Not always helpful, but most times, it'll tell you what's happening with your exposure.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160133
Ahhhh! I'm already confused! How do I know the background is exposed properly? Just by looking on the screen? I still get pictures where the background looks normal, but those extremes I'm talking about still look awful in the picture. Example of this is outside. The grass will look properly exposed, but (in this instance) the black/white dog looks way too dark (black head) or too bright (white body). I'm sorry if I sound really stupid...but this is where my original post started. I get really confused and it's hard to type out exactly what I mean.

You have some margin to adjust these things in post processing. However it sounds to me like you perhaps need to investigate using fill flash.

A perfect example is shooting someone with the sun on their back. So you are shooting INTO the sun. You expose for the sky and you underexpose the person. You expose for the person, you blow out the sky. There's just now way you are going to get both things with correct exposure. In this case, you have 2 options.

1. Bracket your shot then merge in post.
   
2. Use fill flash. So you would expose for the BG then use fill flash for the subject.

---->This is the mistake. I am guessing when you say "everything is correct" you mean the exposure meter is in the middle? This is hardly correct. You are still allowing the camera to make the decision in what is the "correct" exposure. You realize if you are in M mode and you always set the exposure meter to the middle, you are essentially in automatic mode right? Once you get this concept, I am 100% sure it will open things up for you.

This makes a lot of sense now, BUT if I am NOT going by the middle line, how do I know I'm in the correct ball park? Or rather, how do I even know what my starting point is? I know all the basics about f stops, ISO, shutter speed, but I have no idea how to put the three together in a given situation...which is why I was trusting the camera. I am not experienced enough at this point to walk into a room and know what to set the camera at to get a proper exposure.

The instructor in my last photography class told me to "make the meter happy" by always making sure it was in the middle. I guess this was bad advice!!

jeljohns wrote in post #10160511
This makes a lot of sense now, BUT if I am NOT going by the middle line, how do I know I'm in the correct ball park? Or rather, how do I even know what my starting point is?

It depends. If the lighting is fairly even and there isn't a lot of contrast in the scene, then you can depend on the camera to get you in the ball park. Keep in mind the metering mode has a big effect on this too. (Evaluative, center weighted, spot, etc.) But let's not complicate things too much.

You will be able to figure things out with experience. If you are shooting someone and you are facing into the sun, you know now that you can't rely on the meter. In fact it'll be way off if you do.

You know that if you are shooting snow, the camera will underexpose at least 1-2 stops. That's way off FYI.

You know that if you have harsh window light and you are shooting into the window, the camera might get it wrong. You can use spot metering, meter off the subject's face, but then that'll blow out the window. If that's what you want, and there's actually nothing wrong with blowing out the window, then you are all set. If not, and you want both things exposed properly, you know the camera is definitely going to get it wrong (actually, wrong is perhaps not the best word...the camera simply isn't capable doing it because of limited dynamic range) and you need to go to plan B, as mentioned before, bracketing or use fill flash.

Again, keep in mind, some things you can recover in post, especially if you shoot in RAW.

jeljohns wrote in post #10160511
I know all the basics about f stops, ISO, shutter speed, but I have no idea how to put the three together in a given situation...which is why I was trusting the camera. I am not experienced enough at this point to walk into a room and know what to set the camera at to get a proper exposure.

The instructor in my last photography class told me to "make the meter happy" by always making sure it was in the middle. I guess this was bad advice!!

Yes, that was VERY bad advice! If you know f stops, ISO, shutter speeds relative to getting that exposure meter to the middle, you really haven't learned anything about exposure.

Have you read "Understanding Exposure" By Bryan Peterson? I recommend it. He explains exposure really well in that book, if nothing else. Read it. Once you get it, it will literally open things up for you!

And just what model and type of camera do you have? I don't think you've mentioned this. SLR? tiny compact? bigger P&S? (like a G10/11/SX).

I'm using a 50D, 28-75 2.8 lens, and a 50mm 1.4 lens, 430 EXII flash.

Lets see if this helps. I hope that I don't confuse you more.

Your meter in your camera reads reflected light and camera sees the entire world as 18% gray. That means if you point you camera at snow and snow is all your camera meter reads it will read the snow as 18% gray. Thus if you don't compensate for that the snow will underexpose by a couple of stops thus coming out looking gray.

If you point your camera at something black it will also go by the meter it will try and render that black as gray thus over exposing the black by a couple stops rendering that gray.

The meter cannot decide whether something is white or black. So say if you point your meter/camera at a white gown in a white room you if you go by the meter it will underexpose the scene by a couple of stops. Also different colors will effect the meter even though the light hasn't changed thus the exposure shouldn't change. This is how the meter will lie.

Thats why if you meter a gray card or take an incident meter reading as Skip suggested as long as the light remains constant so should your exposure. Your meter bounces because of the reason I have mentioned and if the light indeed hasn't changed neither should your exposure.

In this case the bouncing meter is caused by differences in reflected light and if you leave the camera in auto or change the exposure to match the meter you will not get correct exposures because the meter is reading differences in reflected light not actual light which in this example hasn't changed thus neither should your exposure.

So set it to the gray card or the incident reading as Skip suggested and leave the exposure alone no matter what the meter in the camera is telling you.

jeljohns,

There are a few "tricks" you can use that work well in Manual mode. Not that you can apply them in the Tv/Av/P modes as well, but would typically need to use a combination of Exposure Compensation and Exposure Lock (when you need to meter something then recompose).

On old standard is the Sunny 16 Rule -- outdoors on a bright sunny day with the sun overhead (not the best lighting but as a "starting point') you can use f/16, ISO 100 and 1/~100 (focal length = 1/ISO) as a "formula" -- it will give you a "good exposure" but you then set the aperture to what you want (or the shutter speed) and then adjust the other parameters to compensate for that change. Also you compensate for different lighting (like an overcast day may require you to increase your exposure by a stop or so).

Another trick is to use green grass as "medium" -- you mentioned using this, so I'm not sure how "bad" those shots came out -- maybe you can post and example.

When it comes to black and white subjects, if you are uncertain using one of the general "scene" metering/exposing methods, then there are a couple quick solutions. One would be to spot meter on the white object, assuming it is close to pure white (make sure it's spot metering) and then adjust your settings to place the meter "needle" right up to say +2 EV -- this is something to test for yourself to see if you need to go higher or lower. This is telling the camera to expose the scene in a way that makes a white dress white. Of course, you want to be careful of overexposing, and like I say try it with say white paper with some fine print and see if the print is fully legible in the shot. You can also take the opposite approach -- meter the black suit/dog coat and adjust the settings to "make it black" with say a -2 EV -- again, test it out and make sure the black retains some detail.

Pictures with snow also can be set in that way. You want to expose to make the snow white but to retain some detail.

Another thing I use sometimes is the sky. This is especially cool on a sunny day -- I know about what aperture and shutter speed I want and about the ISO I need but a quick check for me is to point the camera at blue sky and adjust until the sky is being exposed at somewhat above +1 EV. That gets me in a very good ballpark. If the sky is overcast I can take a stab at guessing -- is it lighter than "medium"? Set the exposure accordingly. Of course you can take a white cloud and pretend it's snow...

You do have to re-check things if you change your position relative to your light. If your back is to the sun and you are set with good exposure and then you turn 90% to 180% your scene lighting has changed, so you will want to "re-calibrate" your exposure accordingly. I forget about that all the time when I'm rushing through shooting stuff!

And, like was mentioned, some things are just challenging. If you are in bright sunlight but trying to shoot something in the shade, you will either have to comromise in your exposure or you will have to rescue in post processing. Shoot Raw to get the most latitude there, but challenging it is!

Youtube is full of info for visual learners. Gavin Hoey has a ton of how-to videos here:
http://www.youtube.com​/profile?user=PhotoGav​in#g/u

Any more examples like this?

Everything I learnt was from reading and watching video's, taking pictures, messing them up and then re taking them over and over. DONT give up, you will get it!

try meetup.com for local photo clubs.

jeljohns wrote in post #10161448
I'm using a 50D, 28-75 2.8 lens, and a 50mm 1.4 lens, 430 EXII flash.

If this is your first SLR camera, you should expect about a 6 month learning curve depending on how much you use your camera, read about the SLR camera system, reading help on forums, etc. An SLR is really much different than a P&S camera primarily because of the considerable difference in depth of field (mainly due to the much longer focal lengths and wider apertures).

tonylong wrote in post #10163462
jeljohns,

When it comes to black and white subjects, if you are uncertain using one of the general "scene" metering/exposing methods, then there are a couple quick solutions. One would be to spot meter on the white object, assuming it is close to pure white (make sure it's spot metering) and then adjust your settings to place the meter "needle" right up to say +2 EV -- this is something to test for yourself to see if you need to go higher or lower. This is telling the camera to expose the scene in a way that makes a white dress white. Of course, you want to be careful of overexposing, and like I say try it with say white paper with some fine print and see if the print is fully legible in the shot. You can also take the opposite approach -- meter the black suit/dog coat and adjust the settings to "make it black" with say a -2 EV -- again, test it out and make sure the black retains some detail.

Pictures with snow also can be set in that way. You want to expose to make the snow white but to retain some detail.

Another thing I use sometimes is the sky. This is especially cool on a sunny day -- I know about what aperture and shutter speed I want and about the ISO I need but a quick check for me is to point the camera at blue sky and adjust until the sky is being exposed at somewhat above +1 EV. That gets me in a very good ballpark. If the sky is overcast I can take a stab at guessing -- is it lighter than "medium"? Set the exposure accordingly. Of course you can take a white cloud and pretend it's snow...

Shoot Raw to get the most latitude there, but challenging it is!

+1
Learn to meter bright sky, blue sky, white. Use your RGB histogram on camera to check for clipping.