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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 18 May 2010 (Tuesday) 11:00
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Canon 300L2.8nonIS + TC1.4X Vs Tokina 500mm F/8 Vs Zuiko 500mm F/8 Reflex

 
newworld666
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May 18, 2010 11:00 |  #1

After 2 weeks using a tokina and a olympus 500mm mirror lens, I tried to make an as serious as possible test to choose which lens i was going to keep. It'a non scientific test with line per millimeters counting and so on.

I just added as a reference my 300L2.8+TC1.4X, which gives me very good results for quad bike or F1 races ..
I know that a cropped 420mm at F/4 would not be directly comparable, but I know what I get ususally when I use it ..
This can be a sort of my reference in monza 2009

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Formula-One/Race/Hamilton00007/650467185_2Npeo-XL-1.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …7/650467185_2Np​eo-O-1.jpg  (external link)

I want to use mirror lens as a pocketable lens for candid shots. For serious activities as a sort of journalist for some websites, I will, of course bring he 3.2kg 300L2.8+TC1.4X or TC2X.

But as a walkaround my perfect and unbeatable combo will be 24L1.4II+85L1.2II+500m​mF/8 mirror

So I used a type of reference target wich is about 50 meters far from my window.
I took with a tripod a centered picture and a left border one.
I think in a top or lower corner, it has no real sense, in the fact that vignetting is rather strong and an handhelded 500mm picture with a focus made in the corner should look like a sort of nightmare.

I expected best results would be with canon 300L2.8 even crooped, but after analysing the results :shock: ouch ....even after trying three times, results were not closed at all !!!!

So that's what I used as a target

As centered target

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Zuiko-500mmC-Full/871057685_japbp-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …ull/871057685_j​apbp-O.jpg  (external link)

as border target

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Zuiko-500mmB-Full/871057533_yC79v-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …ull/871057533_y​C79v-O.jpg  (external link)

Focus was made with lifeview and zoom X10

To compare best is to click on pictures to get a type of fullHD cropped in different tabs and switch between them.

Donc les trois résultats pour le centre sont :
So results for the centered targed for the 3 lenses

Canon 300L2.8+TC1.4X -> 420mm @F4
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Canon-420mmC/871057761_jGH9g-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmC/871057761_j​GH9g-O.jpg  (external link)

Tokina 500mm F/8
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Tokina-500mmC/871057828_uJ6aj-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmC/871057828_u​J6aj-O.jpg  (external link)

Olympus Zuiko 500mm F/8
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Zuiko-500mmC/871057894_7qqnZ-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmC/871057894_7​qqnZ-O.jpg  (external link)


Last sunday, I was think I could get as my first 10 "real life" pictures a quite good results with the zuiko, but I must say that with the target, the Zuiko is much better than the other one (I didn't try the canon at F8)
I was thinking the Tokina gave also rather good results, but now I think ther is a big margin between the two lenses.

On the border, the gap is even bigger, as the Tokina gets some distorsion and make a type of compressed target.
All pictures are taken at 1/800 on a un moved tripod.

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:02 |  #2

For border, here are the results

Canon 300L2.8+TC1.4X -> 420mm @F4


IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Canon-420mmB/871059041_2NjMk-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmB/871059041_2​NjMk-O.jpg  (external link)


Tokina 500mm F/8 Reflex

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Tokina-500mmB/871059126_up6yL-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmB/871059126_u​p6yL-O.jpg  (external link)


Olympus Zuiko 500mm F/8 Reflex

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Canon-Tokina-Zuiko-500mm/Zuiko-500mmB/871059185_sEvg6-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …mmB/871059185_s​Evg6-O.jpg  (external link)


Here too, results are really much clearer than what I was thinking after using the Tokina and Zuiko for 2 weeks..
I wanted to keep the zuiko :
-> the hood is much more convinient and integrated
-> the lens cap is similar to a 72mm canon's one and not a platic cover which is falling down to easily when getting the lens out of the pocket.
-> it seemed a bit sharper, but I was imagining that in two weeks I got more comfortable with mirror lenses, so results with zuiko go an advantage beacuse of this fact.

but now, I feel the gap is really big between the tokina and the Olympus Zuiko, so I will keep the zuiko even if price is 5 times more expensive.

Of course the usability of a F8 mirror lens stays really thin, you need a 21MP body which can go to 3200 iso witout too much loss (after using Noiseware to reduce chroma noise). AF is missing even if the AF confirm chip is eally working very astonishing well , so we can't expect to get quick moving subjects.


A walkaround with 24L1.4II+85L1.2II+Zuik​o500F8 whithout any bags and just 2 jacket pockets or of an untight trousers and my 5DMKII hanging on a Blackrapid RS-5 would be a huge pleasure and give best results that exists on the market ..

Now, when I see zuiko's results i am dreaming of a Sony/Minolta 500mm mirror with a good AF and stabilized body like Alpha 850.
and of course of the Leica 500 LR which seems to give perfect results.

So last sunday results were not just luck, but zuiko can use perfectly the 21MP of the 5DMKII ..

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:03 |  #3

This is the walkaround I had when I tried the Olympus Zuiko 500mm F/8 ...

Wether is not really good, but I could make a small promenade with my dogs in a forest. I didn't have a real time to compare directly the Tokina and the Zuiko. I will make this soon, more static with a tripod.

Unluckily I didn't get the fourth generation AF Confirm adapter, and didn't take a time to micro adjust it to my 5DMKII (it seems there is a front focus +2 or +3).

Tokina seems to be a bt lighter, but the hood is really not convinient (very difficult to put it in a live situation) Zuiko's one is integrated and comfotable (maybe a bit too small), the tokina lens cap is falling down easily and zuiko is really similar to canon and well fixed. Zuiko can get a standard 72mm filters (but polarized one won't be easy to use because flter is turning while focusing) and tokina is limited to 3 types of very specific filters (I even found that Tokina without UV filter got sharper pictures).

So I went out with my 135F2.0.. in the forest, the zuiko was unusable because it was too dark, even with 135mm I was mostly at 1/800 and 2500 Iso, so at F8 ????
I just took 18 pictures and 3 were missed focusing somme other just a ltlle bit out of focus, I missed the 4th af confirm chip.

Like with the Tokina, a lot of donuts (not really bad to see, but difficult to imagine the result while shooting).

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0687/869657241_nCn8Y-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …687/869657241_n​Cn8Y-O.jpg  (external link)

I was sometimes expecting to get a lot, but on the result there really few !!!

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0453/869656856_fnBxq-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …453/869656856_f​nBxq-O.jpg  (external link)

Again, I was expecting low contrast and rather poor colors, but, like wih the Tokina I am quite pleased on this point with results

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0452filtered/869656655_JbVve-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …red/869656655_J​bVve-O.jpg  (external link)

Sharpness is quite good ...less than 135L2.0 or 85L1.II, but with DPP and noiseware we can get a good job too.

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0449/869656484_thRc5-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …449/869656484_t​hRc5-O.jpg  (external link)

a bit out f focus, but worked well
IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0698/869657773_GwjYM-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …698/869657773_G​wjYM-O.jpg  (external link)

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:04 |  #4

:D Very good, i would'nt approach a bull nearer.. 500mm is really comfortable :lol:(I thik it's more a beaf than a bull)

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0697/869657593_A9RTB-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …697/869657593_A​9RTB-O.jpg  (external link)

Even lying down, i would'nt approach this.

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0694/869657393_6rPq7-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …694/869657393_6​rPq7-O.jpg  (external link)

A last test with a back focus this time, I didn't ry totake a running horse without the new af chip which can take a picture as soon as focus is confirmed.
IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Other/Zuiko-500mm-F8-reflex/IMG0461/869657053_4WW9E-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …461/869657053_4​WW9E-O.jpg  (external link)

Al this small live test was done nearly without sunshine, so i suppose with more sun, it would have been easier to use this old af confirm chip.

So even if Zuiko is 5 times more expensive, I think if I get same results as the Tokina in a more serious test (on a tripod aat iso 100 or 200), i will sell the tokina, becaus is more comfortable to keep it in a pocket (with UV filter as protection) and a good integrated hood.

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:05 |  #5

This was my first test with the Tokina 500mm F/8

I received a quite new Tokina (Nikon mount) and Olympus (OM Mount) 500mm reflex.. unluckily I only received the Nikon adapter, so i can't make a direct comparison between the two lenses.
The AF confirm chip is a 4th generation one and much quicker than those I had with M42. (I just have a small front focus, I will correct this week end).

Actually, my hope is to get my perfect walkaround combo 5DMKII+85L1.2.. and in the left pocket (trousers or jacket) my 24L1.4II and the right pocket a 500mm :D.

Yesteday, I just made asmall test to see how are, colors, sharpness, contrast and focus...

Strangely, with the 5DMKII + Eg-S focusing is really simple, even the AF confirm chip is reacting very quickly (just a small front focus) but DOF is too large .... I am too used of F1.2/F1.4 et F2.0 :lol: directly to F8 is a bit violent..

I am really surprized :
- with the excellent contrast
- and color saturation(le bleu is excellent)..

:confused: Vigneting is a bit too much and we can just correct it with PTLens, Sharpness is difficult too evaluate, during my tests I took quite far objects and in spring wether is full of "vapour" ...

so here are my first 20 minutes of testing the Tokina ( "FullHD" are available by clicking on the picture) ...

sharpness is better than what I expected

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina005/864071240_nbmry-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …005/864071240_n​bmry-O.jpg  (external link)

Color saturation .. excellent
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina011/864072506_phaSj-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …011/864072506_p​haSj-O.jpg  (external link)


Le Tokina really ultra small .. comparing with my usual "working lens" for quad bike races or F1 races (300L2.8nonIS with TC2X (3.3kg) ..

So just to see frame size betwen 500 and 600mm (wether is changing to quickly to make any other comparison)

Le Tokina 500mm
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina003/864070881_4wPvK-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …003/864070881_4​wPvK-O.jpg  (external link)

Canon 600mm
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina004/864071124_XBZXf-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …004/864071124_X​BZXf-O.jpg  (external link)

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:06 |  #6

As a walkaround lens, I want to be able to focus quickly and not been seen .. here some amples with policemen arresting a car which didn't stop at a redlight.
I would never have taken with a white huge lens .
I trusted AF confirm but I have a front focus 20 to 50cm ...

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina010/864072357_FGDqi-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …010/864072357_F​GDqi-O.jpg  (external link)

not really sharp too (still a front focus)
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina009/864072166_GNEcP-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …009/864072166_G​NEcP-O.jpg  (external link)

The joy of 500mm to get improbable and majestic backgrounds playing with hyperfocale ..
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina007/864071650_zHYUy-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …007/864071650_z​HYUy-O.jpg  (external link)

Other tests with af confirm ..
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina008/864071934_wVNZJ-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …008/864071934_w​VNZJ-O.jpg  (external link)


really nice contrast and saturated colors. Much better that I would expect by reading all advices around miror lenses.

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina013/864072984_TwCVM-L.jpg

Even at 2500Iso 1/500 (In general,I would keep 1/800 question to freeze hands, feet, etc ..)
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina001/864070329_kAesu-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …001/864070329_k​Aesu-O.jpg  (external link)

Even in dark conditions, red is acceptable.
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/Tokina012/864072739_YaABg-L.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …012/864072739_Y​aABg-O.jpg  (external link)


.. So I am basically surprised with these first tests ... I centered almost all shoots, I was too afraid that borders would be too soft.... unluckily there are some donuts as soon as we are not playing around infinity ...
I got in 20 minutes testing in the street 80% of the picures with rather good focus, contrast and colors. All could easily be corrected with DPP+PTlens+NoisewarePr​o (I expected les than 10% ). So percentage is not really far from what I get with 85L1.2 (AF a bit too slow to catch Life in the street) and 135L2.0 (AF is often not really acurate).. of course, at the end photos I like is more or less 5% of the initial shoots .. the rest is not interesting, framing is too conventionnal, etc etc...

I realy hope to get soon my adapter Olympus->EOS ... Olympus is 5X more expensive than the tokina (150€ port includa).
Olympus is a bit heavier and MFD is 4m and tokina is 1.4m (this point is not really an issue, as I will use the reflex lens for more than 100m subjects)
I will sell on ebay the lens i won't use ...

so in less than 10 days I hope to compare Tokina Vs Olympus Vs Canon300L2.8+TC1.4x

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:07 |  #7

And the second test of the Tokina ...

:oops: ..for the background, I don't have actually any good answer.. I use the tokina for less than 3 hours, so it's difficult to analyse ..

But this afternoon, I made some tests wiyh my dogs in a Natural Park this time, and once more I was surprised with some results, better than what I expected.. Particularly with what I was thinking as difficult backgrounds ...

With grass.. not smooth but quite pleasant

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9970/866189298_gNCHK-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …970/866189298_g​NCHK-O.jpg  (external link)

In the forest too .. I was waiting for donuts :rolleyes: but not
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9948/866188977_53hWn-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …948/866188977_5​3hWn-O.jpg  (external link)

In some case there are donuts .. but only white one were disgracing .. and I don't know why they appeared in this case

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9982/866189427_tCVMh-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …982/866189427_t​CVMh-O.jpg  (external link)

So, I tried to make some corrections with DPP
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9982DPP/866209662_qT3ED-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …DPP/866209662_q​T3ED-O.jpg  (external link)

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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May 18, 2010 11:08 |  #8

Basically I imagine with far subjects, backgrounds can be more pleasant wiyh smaller donuts..

It seems that with near subjects, it's more difficult ..

This case was alright, but I get better pictures with my 85L1.2II or 125L2.0

IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9923/866188356_bGHRF-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …923/866188356_b​GHRF-O.jpg  (external link)


But in this case ther were flowers back of the dog .. and result is not very good
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9922/866188215_dDWEY-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …922/866188215_d​DWEY-O.jpg  (external link)

And it this case background is really busy with a lot of donuts ..
IMAGE: http://newworld666.smugmug.com/Other/Tokina-500mm-F8-Reflex/IMG9957/866189114_CG62q-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://newworld666.smu​gmug.com …957/866189114_C​G62q-O.jpg  (external link)

:confused: so at this stage I can't conclude anything .. when subject is very far (more than 200 meters) I imagine yhat donuts are really small so not so uncomfortable ...But I am not sure of this analysis:rolleyes:

Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
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May 18, 2010 11:09 |  #9

So in conclusion ...

A mirror lens won't replace my 300L2.8nonIS .. it has no AF and with F8 can't be used without good lights (I would say betwwen 8h and 19h spring time), bokeh is very hard to control.

But the zuiko is really sharp, has very good contrast and got really saturated colors. Si it makes the best lens for candids and a real 500mm handholdable walkaround lens. I won't imagine a 70-200+TC2X or a 300L2.8 in my pocket. Even a 200L2.8+TC2X wouldn't reach so well far targets.


Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
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Jul 28, 2010 03:33 |  #10

Some new test with the zuiko 500F8 reflex.... I am more and more convince this lens will be perfect in my "light" travel package 24L1.4II+85L1.2II+Zuik​o500F8 ... I expect to use the 500mm for candids and far subject ...
Some samples with my family ..

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Family/2010-07-24-Laira-vistite-les/IMG2212NW/950258238_m9JsB-XL.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://photos.corbi.eu …2NW/950258238_m​9JsB-O.jpg  (external link)

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For far subject as a zoo test (I was my first test in a zoo, I am not so much interested in sleeping animals)

IMAGE: http://photos.corbi.eu/Family/2010-07-26-Laira-a-Peaugres/IMG2571NW/949403859_JPhsw-X2.jpg
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Even for quick moving subject AF confirm chip is working quite well
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At last some landscape

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Marc
5DMKII+1Dx 24L1.4II 85L1.2II 180L3.5 300F2.8nonIS TC2XII ..... Sigma14F2.8AFDG, Zuiko 500F/8 Reflex
http://myc-photos.eu (external link)

  
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Jan ­ Steinman
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4 posts
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Post edited 1 month ago by Jan Steinman with reason 'include photo'.
     
Mar 26, 2019 00:50 |  #11

Nice study!

I am a huge fan of the Zuiko 500mm ƒ/8 Reflex. Every other mirror I've tried disappoints in comparison!

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Canon 300L2.8nonIS + TC1.4X Vs Tokina 500mm F/8 Vs Zuiko 500mm F/8 Reflex
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