Q&A Session with Martin: B&W Photography

Sorry, I'll stop giving advise 'against' Martin then.
Perhaps you would get similar results if you had a lesson showing you these different techniques as well. Perhaps I assumed you knew as much as you were saying...

... and instead should have assumed you needed a full demo.

BTW, I'm not trying to "take over" anything... just help out as you asked.

I hope he also showed you the localized contrast technique... that pic really will benefit from it.

Vot ist der 'localised contrast technique' please?

It's the method of using the unsharp mask option with a radius higher than the amount to increase contrast.

It's pretty much the key thing Martin is trying to push here... and has a great affect on B&W images.

See the link I posted earlier for a nice description.
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com …-contrast-enhancement.htm

Simon , local contrast not only increases the overall contrast between tones it also benafits in making the blacks deeper and the whites whiter, it has to be used withcare as it can cause halos between say sky and horizan, for small areas the laso toool with a feather of approx 10~15 is ok but for larger areas its best to copy the layer ~apply usm AMMOUNT at anything between 13 and 60 RADIOUS at 55 and THRESHOLD at 0 depending how much you want, then presing Alt and the add layer mask icon in the layers pallete at the same time, when you do this the photo will go back to the background layer look with no usm, all you do then is paint in where you want the contrast to be with a soft brush makeing sure your forground colour is set to white in the tools pallete, it all sounds complicated but its simple once you done it, below is an example the first is without usm the second with it applied, the effect can be seen best in the water in the first its dead looking in the second its come to life and the blacks are much deeper, and this pic isnt finished yet
ps
please excuse the look of these as i am still working on the second, its for an example only how USM can lift the contrast in a photo like no other procces in PS
i will post the fin version later

Martin

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

It seems to enhance the flaws of the image too.. check out those lens flairs in the trees. That why it's a good idea to selectively increase the contrast as needed or to mask certain areas out (initially).

You'd probably want to do any healing and cloning before you do this step. As Martin said, this image is just a demo. I'm sure he'll drop your jaw when he posts a final image.

Hi RAitch
I think the reason why this has been mentioned is that i do give online tuition for BW conversion, and to advanced editing tech sometimes can be confusing for those just starting out in this, your knowledge in CS seems to be considerable as regards layer masking, converting using hue and sat etc etc, but the idea here is to slowly build a knowledge of editing the idea behind it and a basic conversion tecq, all the other will follow naturally as we proceed and go further into the subject, please keep your interst here going but i think it appropiate that one answers the questions as quite a few are people here have or in the process of taking online lessons in this and it does confuse them with two differing approaches to BW, by all means put your imput in and show your different approach in pictures etc, hope that the remarks have not put you off in the future to keep this thread going

Martin

Yes it does accentuate flaws because of the increase in edge sharpening of the pixels and as said previously needs using with a certain amount of care, but all this can be made good with further editing, i will post the fin version when its done, the image below HAS had selective contrast applied to it and i find it better to spot heal AFTER the process as if more contrast control is required the image will require a second go with the spot healing tool.

Martin

This is the second pic of Barden Tower, the first had terrible halo's around the edges, but with perseverance and some suport from Martin i now have success....??

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

Karl, that definitely took care of that halo problem! What did you differently? Did you create a mask and then "white brush" out the area you wanted to use the USM on? Not sure I asked that very clearly.... I had never used masks before, but I'm certainly learning the benefit of it and get more and more comfortable with each try. I get *easily* confused with layers and find myself trying to do something on a layer and nothing happens.... so I'll flatten the image and move on. I know I lose my opportunity to go back and adjust previous work, but.... I'm learning.
Beth

Hi Beth.

Hi!

Heres the finished version of Swinsty Reservoir in Yorkshire,. i have used extensive usm contrast control on this pic to give reasonable blacks and whites, using the masking method as previously talked about, plus selective colour again using layer masks, by using the masks its better especialy on high contrast photos as there is far less chance of getting halos on the sky lines, after that fine tuneing the picture with Dand B and levels

Higher quaity version @ http://www.digital-monochrome.com/jpg108.​htm

Martin
the colour version is for you to have a go its straigt from the raw converter no manipulation, apart from ive removed the dirt marks my censer gives for you

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

......yes i did use the mask option afteMartin showed me, but i chose to set the brush to 100% hardness and zommed in to 100% to edit and get as close as i could to the edge therefore i got no overburn what-so-ever.....??

eenorton wrote:
Karl, that definitely took care of that halo problem! What did you differently? Did you create a mask and then "white brush" out the area you wanted to use the USM on? Not sure I asked that very clearly.... I had never used masks before, but I'm certainly learning the benefit of it and get more and more comfortable with each try. I get *easily* confused with layers and find myself trying to do something on a layer and nothing happens.... so I'll flatten the image and move on. I know I lose my opportunity to go back and adjust previous work, but.... I'm learning.
Beth

Have you any more imput for the the thread aam, you no BW , maybe its turing into a chat room lol, those last two posts of yours , realy helpful and interesting

Martin

Another pic of Bursal, but this time a view form a small hill looking onto it. As you can see it's a very small village....

HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.