Glamour comments!

Effective photography is designed to produce a response. I put up a photo of a little girl, and it was designed to make people look at it. It was effective, and I manipulated my viewers to see things my way. The problem, then, with so-and-so on their knees, is that a person manipulates the viewer towards a certain thing; in this case, for me, it was the subjugation of women in a public forum.

An interesting comment considering the model in this tread was portraied as a Submissive.

I have read through these and seen the one of the themes be " thats my opinion and I'm intitled to it", well are not the crude fellows ( as we seem to assume they are fellows right? ) intitled to thier opinons also.

" I may not agree with what you have to say but I will fight to the death your right to say it". I am retired from the US Army and this is one of the things that kept me going for my whole career.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I understand what you're saying...but I don't agree.

Facing music, and growing up, is something I've done. I'm well aware of the dirt and scum that accompanies some of the most glorious aspects of life. I am rather capable of forming my own opinion, thank you, and have done so with decades of experience and thought behind me. My opinion differs from yours; is that a reason to tell someone to "grow up"? Because their opinion is different than yours?

And frankly, a lot of the shots posted are poorly executed snapshots, and not something I consider "art" by any stretch of imagination. Some are well executed but poorly composed, if one is looking to do anything other than titillate and sexually arouse their viewers. And some are simply outstanding work.

But hey, that's my opinion...grown up or not, positive or negative, clean or dirty, porn or art...my opinion.

Jim said:

You're welcome. And thanks.

Steve said:

I'm not hurt by them. I've given an opinion which was asked for. Should I lie? Should I dissemble? Should I make things up, or worse, stay quiet? That's not my nature, sorry. I'm not easily offended...but I'm also not a quiet good little woman. I've dealt with death, hate, violence, misogeny, and all sorts of things. I'm no virginal child at a keyboard.

As it is, Steve, I've not been participating in that forum, so I've "ignored" the whole thing. But if the topic comes up, and I've got a view to offer, then I shall. Take it or leave it, it's all good...but like your opinion, mine is valid.

Best-
Noni

Maybe growup is not the right word. Maybe open up would be a better word. But I'm afraid it would be taken the wrong way.

Regardless if you or I think it is a snapshot is not important. The important aspect of photography as in any other hobby is that one enjoy doing it. If you gave me a Picasso I would consider it junk, but I would not toss it into the garbage because i know that some one out there will pay a huge sum of money for it. That someone may or may not have good taste but that person will pay for it. That is just life. I heard someone sold a framed T-shirt in ebay for huge some of money. The person who put it up for sale was just making a point and didn't think anybody would think it was worth anything, but it was sold. The point is that even if you don't like it doesn't mean that the picture won't bring interest to some else. Most of us here, as I notice, are here to learn or to share information. Then there are those who share some incredible images, eg Charlesu is one who share some great photos. You might or might not like his work but I'm sure there are a lot who do. Of cause there will aways be a clown who will make dumb comments that we need to ignore, me included.

Such a redundant topic.

Loni - why do have a problem with "so and so on their knees"? I'm not judging you, just want you to elaborate as to why you refuse to look.

There's an old saying: "You have to take the good with the bad". I think that fits perfectly here.

Look, I'm no fan of some of the comments there, but I'm also realistic enough to understand that there will always be those out there, especially on a pretty anonymous internet forum, who will make them.

If I were to stop viewing that area, simply because I don't like a few comments, how does that help me? Well, it certainly shields me from that which I don't care for, but it certainly doesn't do a thing towards helping me understand that aspect of photography any better.

So, I have a choice to make. Which is more important? Keeping those comments from my view, or understanding that aspect of photography better? Well, it's the latter.

I'm not suggesting that anyone's opinion is invalid. But I also think that it's best to, in view of the fact that this is a pretty open internet forum, to accept that those kinds of things will be written, and deal with it.

I think we all know that certain types of comments will be made every once in a while. The choice we have to make is whether or not we're bothered enough by them to deny ourselves access to what is, in most cases, some rather outstanding photography.

I guess I'm just not willing to do that...

Steve

I agree 100%.

Whilst a certain percentage of the images I have seen posted under glamour are excellent images and truly artisitic, a fair number are simply there to titillate. When that happens we are going beyond photography and moving into the world of sexuality and arousal. I was under the impression that this is a photo forum.

I have seen posts in the glamour section that remind me of schoolboys passing round picture in the playground and sniggering. When people express to Noni that she should 'grow up' I think they should turn the mirror on themselves.

Do you really believe that? Why then do we have moderators?

I must be evil. I like to look at good photographs of nude women. I like to look a nude photographs of men too, but for some reason they draw a different response from me (anyone know why?.....lol). They are just part of ther human form which is beautiful and enticing.

However, I also like to look at the smile of a child, the playfullness of a puppy, the grandeur of a landscape and so on. Each one draws a different emotional response from me, none of which I feel is bad.

I believe erotic, glamour or nude photography is art when done right, it draws out emotion from the viewer. No different than a landscape image that makes someone go 'WOW, would I every like to be there'. Ten different photographers could photograph the same nude model and get ten different emotional responses from their images. The could range from 'YUCK, that does not do justice to the subject" to eliciting a 'WOW, does that ever look great' response. I think the idea is to get the most positive response as possible from the viewer.

However, I do not think this forum is benifited from either images or comments that lack taste. But taste is a quality defined differently by everyone.

Noni, I agree with most of what you have posted. I think any negative response you got is due to the fact you come across as suggesting that your take is the only right one. There is no right or wrong to individual interpretation as long as it does not cause anyone harm (there is no harm in difference of opinion).

I absolutely believe that.

As for why we have moderators, I'm guessing that there are probably things they're responsible for other than the comments in the Glamour section.

Again, I'm not defending them. But until you have to pay money to access that area, you're going to get people who make certain comments. Asking them nicely not to won't get it done.

This is my opinion. While I don't appreciate the comments, I appreciate the photography enough that I can dismiss any inappropriate comments. Anyone who opts not to visit that area, simply because of some of the comments made, is denying themselves exposure to some pretty great photography. I don't think that point can be argued...

Steve

The mods are also there to monitor the use of abusive language and other infringements of the forums rules. Are you saying you'd be happy to see lots of "f*** offs and you're a t***" on this forum? That would after all be taking the "good with the bad".

Personally I believe this discussion is being over complicated. I simply believe that people posting responses in the glamour forum should stick to commenting on the photo style, composition, layout, etc and refrain from saying things 'I'd like to give her one'. It is a matter of respect.

Frankly, and I mean this in the nicest way, I think one of the reasons it's over complicated is because people read too much into what's written.

You make an assumption that I'd be "happy" to see offensive language. Please show me where I've said that, and I'll buy you a house. What I did say was that these comments are, like it or not, going to show up from time to time.

So, before you make the logic-leap that I "like" it, you might take a breath before you start putting words in someone's mouth.

And I've yet to see the comments you mention; "f*** offs and you're a t***". I just haven't seen them. If I did, I would likely find them inappropriate, but I wouldn't dwell on them. I would move on and dismiss them. I can do that. I can acknowledge, also, that others cannot.

I agree that comments made can reflect respect or disrespect, Yes, I'd prefer that they be respectful. I understand that there will be those who are disrespectful.

I'm not about to lose too much sleep over it...

Steve

One has to assume that when you argue that membership of a forum such as this means you have to 'take the good with the bad' you were willing to apply that across the board.

That's because the mods keep it out! There have been posts in the past that have contained obscene language or have contained links to sites with obscene language, but the mods have done their jobs and deleted them as soon as they have been alerted to the fact.

Well the onus in on people posting to consider that when posting. Thinking before typing is a good idea.

Thank you for making the point.

If the mods have removed those posts, then it's pretty evident that they deem the others, which some find offensive, not too objectionable...

Steve

Not always. The volume of traffic in the forum is such that we simply can't review every word that gets posted. I think we do a pretty good job, but we can always use a little help. If something gets by us, you only have to click on the little red triangle to bring it to our attention.

And, by and large, I think I am. When things become blatantly indecent, though, I think different rules apply. One can make an inappropriate comment without being indecent. I believe their might be other internet forums where indecent comments are welcome.

Scenario: Someone posts a picture of a gorgeous naked woman. One of the responses is "Gosh, Bob, how can you concentrate?"

Is that inappropriate? Maybe.

If the question is asked due to too much distracting glare from the studio lights, no. If it's due to the woman being stunning, and naked, well, then maybe. The only person who knows for sure is the person asking the question. I think it's a bit condemning to just assume that the intent of every comment is bad.

But, it appears as though there are a good number of people who are willing to assume without the benefit of further information.

Such is life, you see...

Steve