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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 11 Jun 2010 (Friday) 13:15
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12Rock
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Jun 11, 2010 13:15 |  #1

As a newbie & parnet shooting H.S. Sports for the of few of the coaches i got to know, with a canon xsi & 70-200 f/2.8 L series. I am learning as i go and have been doing it for about a year & a half . I don't charge these guys , as they give the photos out (a 24 by 24) to each kid on the team at the end of the season. I make a year end video with them for awards night.
So as i have been traveling with the events i would seek out tips from time to time from the press guys and other alleged pros taking shots , often only to get blown off to the point i stop asking. WEll to my surprise at the N.Y. H.S. Lacrosse playoffs in Long Island Yesterday A photograher from well regarded Maxpreps Mr. Ray Nelson comes up to me and offered a suggestion, I explained the above and he could not have been more pleasant and helpful. Ray did check up on me as the game went on . Thank you Ray Nelson you have restored my faith and where very helpful.
Yes my pictures did improve :)




  
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dmwierz
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Jun 11, 2010 14:13 |  #2

Yep, there are a few experienced shooters who will go out of their way to help you out - quite a few hang out around here, at least occasionally.

I'm a little concerned with your comment :

"I don't charge these guys , as they give the photos out (a 24 by 24) to each kid on the team at the end of the season. I make a year end video with them for awards night. "

While I understand you wanting to give back to the school, you do realize what you're producing has a very real value to the school, and that they, and the other parents, likely would pay for it. In addition, if your new buddy from MaxPreps knew you were giving your shots away, you think he might have not been so inclined to help you out? You're basically giving stuff away that Mr. Nelson is trying to get paid for.

Just something to think about.


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Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand."

  
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12Rock
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Jun 11, 2010 15:11 |  #3

To clear this up maybe just a bit , the pictures are not given out like candy. They are what i may consider good and better then most parents on the sidelines , but yet not at the level of guys like Ray . The area i live is not a money area and more parents then i like to say have lost some jobs the last year due to the times. The school cuts back every year on money to the sports programs, so if this helps in any way i'm for it . The coaches pay to blow up the pics with their own money, and the kids at the end , love it . I think it just one more thing that keeps these programs positve.

I do not do this for anyone or anything else, just the school 2 or 3 programs. Somewhere down the line should i sharpen my skills to you guys level i will hopefully be able to be compensated for the work .
Mr. Nelson was aware of the situation i believe and said he was not threatned by my work, although he liked some pics after i took his advise , be he is the man and his work on the net proves it .




  
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J.Napier
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Jun 11, 2010 20:11 |  #4

12Rock wrote in post #10345054 (external link)
Somewhere down the line should i sharpen my skills to you guys level i will hopefully be able to be compensated for the work .

12Rock,
Good luck with this strategy, its very had to start charging for something you were giving away previously. Its hard enough sometimes trying to get partents to come off of hard earned $ as it is sometimes.


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dmwierz
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Jun 12, 2010 06:34 |  #5

Yeah, further to Jeff's point, and old friend of mine (not a professional photographer but someone with skills) photographed his High School Alma Mater's football team for years, giving away prints to the players and coaches in return for sideline access. One year a few years back a professional showed up (the team is a perennial powerhouse and makes the State tournament almost every year) with flyers, longer glass, better skills and equipment, a web site, etc., and this pro started charging the going-rate for his shots. My friend was astounded that not only did the school pay for what he had been giving away, but that he was told his sideline access was being terminated since they didn't need him anymore. And BTW, this school was not an affluent one.

People frequently only value something when they are paying a fair price for it. I know you will argue this isn't the case with your situation, 12Rock, but you might be very surprised at what your school would be willing to pay for top quality images - even somewhere that's "not a money area". I've worked for MaxPreps for years (though haven't shot for them for a few seasons) as well as PrepSports Online, a similar program to MaxPreps, and I found my best sales were from inner city Chicago schools where poverty was rampant, and my lowest participation and sales were from the "money areas". The football, basketball and other sporting programs were the highlights of their weeks, and they were happy to find the money to buy photographs of their kids, and players purchased shots of themselves.

I guess the point I'm making is never, ever, feel bad about charging a fair price for your time and expertise - if you don't respect your work and output enough to be compensated for it, don't expect anyone else to respect it, either, especially down the road if you decide to start charging.


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ncgator
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Jun 12, 2010 07:59 as a reply to  @ dmwierz's post |  #6

I agree with the previous posts, giving away your photos will lead to many problems. What I have been doing is taking pictures for the different sports and offering them to parents and then donate the money back to the athletic department at various times during the year at fund raisers and by buying advertising. This way the parents are getting what they want and I stay in the good graces of the school and everyone is happy. I have also used this contact to get field access at bigger events that interest me, like NCAA sports.


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12Rock
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Jun 12, 2010 13:55 as a reply to  @ ncgator's post |  #7

Ok . so I have been reading in this forums for over 3 months and do understand where you guys are coming from. At any event that i went to where there is Photo coverage i have always stayed out of the way of the real pros there . No doubt about it , if i didn't get the shot that's fine. There are many others, and i know my place.
I do not do this for sideline passes or special access, I do it because i enjoy it and want to get better at it . i feel the only way to get better is to shoot. I have been lucky enough in my Life to retire at what is considered a pretty young age and be comfortable. Retiring next April.
I was a High School and collegiate athlete(small schools) and always miss the competition, what i do is because i enjoy taking the pics . Should i get better i don't think i will ever charge my friends or sons classmates for the pics. Strangers is another thing, should i get that fortunate and really jump into this with better skills is another thing.
Folks i am honestly not looking to be odd , maybe it's just my circumstances , I try to treay others the way i would want to be treated , be it pictures or advise on pictures to other newbies like myself. I have added a picture , which i think is pretty good. yet it still not as good as most of you folks...so thats it

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Content warning: data



  
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12Rock
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Jun 12, 2010 14:10 as a reply to  @ ncgator's post |  #8

Clarence you were very helpful my last time around as well ,,, I see a trend with you maxpreps guys Thanks




  
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clarence
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Jun 12, 2010 14:14 |  #9

12Rock wrote in post #10349460 (external link)
I have added a picture , which i think is pretty good. yet it still not as good as most of you folks...so thats it
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | Content warning: data

For a link you need to use the URL tag, like this:
http://www.flickr.com …in/set-72157624258409518/ (external link)

For the IMG tag, you need to give the URL for a JPG. Here's the picture I think you were trying to show...

IMAGE: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4691786593_12d5c7a6b3_d.jpg

Not bad, but try to avoid the amputation of the feet and bump your shutter speed faster than 1/400". I aim for around 1/1000". So bump ISO up from 400 to 800 and open aperture from f/3.5 to f/2.8

I also don't like square crops, so here's a quick edit a little tighter...


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liam5100
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Jun 12, 2010 18:51 |  #10

Just a bit of a side note as well, being a "max preps" photographer doesn't automatically equall the person knowing what they are talking about. There are lots of great photographers that submit to max preps but one doesn't make the other. Same could be said about any service though.

But what do I know, I'm the guy max preps said "your work is not up to our standards".

Just saying don't assume someone is an expert just because of who they are shooting for.


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AdamLewis
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Jun 16, 2010 17:10 |  #11

Haha although it is a little tangential, I do agree with Bill. The only people I consider 'pros' are staff photographers for SI/Getty/Reuters. Theres some other people out there who I may know individually that just do wire work who I consider to be 'professional' but simply shooting for someone like Maxpreps definitely doesnt make a you a 'pro' in my book.

Also, while you may not personally be a threat to people like Ray Nelson, you have to understand that your mentality IS a threat to him and any job he may have thats related to photography. The flood of cheap DLSRs and the wide-eyed novices attached to them has irrevocably changed the Photographic industry. Its the exact reason why I relegated photography to just a hobby that may earn some income rather than continuing with it as a profession.


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canonnoob
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Jun 16, 2010 17:19 |  #12

liam5100 wrote in post #10350630 (external link)
Just a bit of a side note as well, being a "max preps" photographer doesn't automatically equall the person knowing what they are talking about. There are lots of great photographers that submit to max preps but one doesn't make the other. Same could be said about any service though.

But what do I know, I'm the guy max preps said "your work is not up to our standards".

Just saying don't assume someone is an expert just because of who they are shooting for.

x100...


David W.

  
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