Cycling Week #11

I haven't even gone through everything shot this weekend, but I just want to get this done early. I posted these on my news page, so I'll share here.

1. Time trial

Biff:

#1: The bokeh at f/3.2 in that photos is dreamy- it works well. However, it's slightly oof. Perhaps a faster shutter speed was needed? Did you take that with a Sigma lens (it looks like it)? I see some CA.

#2: I typically don't use these types of shots- ie with the riders looking down. I know it conveys "the agony of defeat" and/or them being dead tired/beaten to a pulp, but seeing a face is nice.

#3: oof/way too much cropping.

#4: Great shot, with the exception of the bike seat in front of the podium. That would be easy to edit out. Just for ****s and giggles, you should try a selective color on this one. I think it would look cool. Maybe even add a frame.

I love #2 and #3. Where is this outside velodrome? I don't think we even have one in oklahoma. Tell me the guy with the disk won right? I wish #3 was sharper, I would have liked maybe a little less bokeh, open the aperture a bit? Probably nothing could be done since the distance to them and the background appears significant.

emtp563 wrote in post #10359745
Biff:

#1: The bokeh at f/3.2 in that photos is dreamy- it works well. However, it's slightly oof. Perhaps a faster shutter speed was needed? Did you take that with a Sigma lens (it looks like it)? I see some CA.

You can't tell because of the tight crop to emphasize his expression, but this is one of the 'mandatory blur' shots that everyone expects. Faster shutter speed? No, because every one needs a blur shot, and if you don't show one, someone points that out, so this is what you get!

emtp563 wrote in post #10359745
#2: I typically don't use these types of shots- ie with the riders looking down. I know it conveys "the agony of defeat" and/or them being dead tired/beaten to a pulp, but seeing a face is nice.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It's a 40mph sprint on a fixed gear, they are throwing their bikes, and look how close it is! If that was at the World Championships, that photo would be on the papers around the world. Get real.

emtp563 wrote in post #10359745
#3: oof/way too much cropping.

Again, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It's POURING RAIN, see the water hanging off the second rider's nose? Plus I'm in the pouring rain. This is a *GREAT* photo as it stands.

emtp563 wrote in post #10359745
#4: Great shot, with the exception of the bike seat in front of the podium. That would be easy to edit out. Just for ****s and giggles, you should try a selective color on this one. I think it would look cool. Maybe even add a frame.

I could crop out the saddle, it's a crop of a larger photo. The organizers actually did a very neat thing with their podiums in that they propped each rider's bikes in front of their step. It's very neat when you see the whole thing, but in this photo you can't see it.

Nah .... I shoot photos, I don't do 'art'.

I'd post a few more, but am having MAJOR computer virus problems that needs attention.

TreyPetty1 wrote in post #10359952
I love #2 and #3. Where is this outside velodrome? I don't think we even have one in oklahoma. Tell me the guy with the disk won right? I wish #3 was sharper, I would have liked maybe a little less bokeh, open the aperture a bit? Probably nothing could be done since the distance to them and the background appears significant.

Yeah, this is the Washington Park Velodrome in Kenosha, WI. Oldest operating velodrome in the USA (1932).

Geeze, the Monday morning quarterbacking around here is brutal this week! Again, this is in the pouring rain ... them and me. No time to think; "Hmmm, maybe next lap I'll try f5.6 ... or perhaps tweak the shutter speed a bit." "Oh, after that perhaps I'll go into Menu and bump down the contrast a click."

No, I've got water running through my toes and down my back, and all I'm concerned with is not ruining my camera and then slogging over to the finish line to catch the sprint. Meanwhile a rider crashes in a nearby corner and I hurry over to see if I can help him. That's where my mindset was, silly me.

Oh yeah, no, I think the XXX rider on the left (outside) won that. Tough to call from this angle since you have to go by the leading edge of the wheel, not where it touches the ground, but that XXX rider was real quick. He had a brutal acceleration.

Okay, here's another sprint where you can see their faces, and before anyone asks ... NO, I don't have this in a shot where their spokes are blurred.

I love your stuff!!! I actually prefer the first finish line where their heads are down. Having been on a bike and raced i know that the last thing you're gonna do is look up hahah! And I like that the spokes are sharp and not blurred, what shutter were you at? You're doing great work, i enjoy looking/learning from ya!

Biffbradford wrote in post #10360531
You can't tell because of the tight crop to emphasize his expression, but this is one of the 'mandatory blur' shots that everyone expects. Faster shutter speed? No, because every one needs a blur shot, and if you don't show one, someone points that out, so this is what you get!

I for one don't care to see any blur shots. I could see spoke blur or background panning blur to be OK, but overall motion blur/camera shake does nothing to help the image, IMO. Even in a "blur" shot, I still think the subject should be tack sharp.

I agree that it appears that those two shots are either overly cropped, OOF, or have motion issues. If that was your intention, then I can't really argue, but it would not be my style to make an image like that one purpose.

Hope you don't mind the criticism. The second finish line photo (with the faces) is excellent! The other ones just aren't my preference.

BenJohnson wrote in post #10363203
I for one don't care to see any blur shots. I could see spoke blur or background panning blur to be OK, but overall motion blur/camera shake does nothing to help the image, IMO. Even in a "blur" shot, I still think the subject should be tack sharp.

I agree that it appears that those two shots are either overly cropped, OOF, or have motion issues. If that was your intention, then I can't really argue, but it would not be my style to make an image like that one purpose.

Hope you don't mind the criticism. The second finish line photo (with the faces) is excellent! The other ones just aren't my preference.

Agree 100%.

BenJohnson wrote in post #10363203
I for one don't care to see any blur shots. I could see spoke blur or background panning blur to be OK, but overall motion blur/camera shake does nothing to help the image, IMO. Even in a "blur" shot, I still think the subject should be tack sharp.

I agree that it appears that those two shots are either overly cropped, OOF, or have motion issues. If that was your intention, then I can't really argue, but it would not be my style to make an image like that one purpose.

Hope you don't mind the criticism. The second finish line photo (with the faces) is excellent! The other ones just aren't my preference.

I was never any fan of the blur myself until recently, but some folks love 'em to death, so who am I to argue? If done right, it does look very cool. Yes, in a blur shot the face should be sharp, but what if it isn't ... should it be deleted simply based on that fact?

In the rain photo ... c'mon now. That's a great photo IMHO, and a tight crop brings out the intensity of the moment that would simply get lost in a zoomed out view of both riders riding through a puddle. Not tack sharp? Who cares? (well, I don't) (I'd post the original for comparison, but I'm still struggling with this *#*@ computer virus.)

Honestly, I'm not crazy about that second sprint image. Yeah, they are grimacing and all that and if one of the riders likes it enough to buy it, that's great because it's a good image, and one to be proud to have of yourself. However I think the first one is a MUCH better photo all around. It's the tag at home plate, not the run towards it. It's the slam dunk, not the jump up to the hoop.

Anyway, it's all good ... all comments are welcome. I can take it!

Week #12 is going to be interesting because we will be in the middle of a 10 day stretch of racing every day. It's going to be hard to just pick out a few to share, but I'll do my best to find something out of the ordinary.

#1 and #3 are not bad shots at all. I just think they would be much better if they were tack sharp. Were they heavy crops, or just motion blur? IMO, if you do a motion blur shot and the face/subject is not sharp, then, yes, it would go in the junk bin. The decreased keeper rate (increased chance of missed shots) is a big reason I wouldn't ever shoot that type of shot in an event setting. If you don't "need" quality photo's of every participant, or you have multiple chances for each shot, then I'd be up for trying it, but not when I want 100% sale-able shots. (Or if you are confident that you can get a high keeper rate with that kind of shot, something I can't do)

Without context the first finish line shot is worthless to me. To me (not a cyclist), I didn't even have any idea it was a finish line stretch. Just looked like two guys biking along (and not trying very hard). To the competitor(s) in the shot, or if it was a significant moment during the event would make it a different story. Even in those cases, I think faces/emotions make the images that much stronger. When you see a photo of Michael Jordan dunking, you don't see him hanging on the rim with his arm covering his face, you see him flying through the air with his tongue hanging out!

Okay, to a non-cyclist they are probably all worthless.

You are not going to get a tack sharp photo in the pouring rain. Period. For one, I'm not standing in front of them with a 17mm lens so just the water in the air is going to distort the view, plus it's not bright sunshine either so shutter speed is not going to be 1/2000th. It's a storm! Ahem, , "not trying?". Time to get your bike out my friend! Those guys lapped everybody once, some riders four times, and that was not the finishing sprint. I said that I had to get "slogging over to the finish line to catch the sprint" which was three blocks and several laps away.

I can see where you're coming from though. If I saw a photo of the most spectacular dunk shot ever seen in modern history, I would probably yawn and move on still bored. That's why I don't even look at those threads. We all have our niche.

Unless you are involved in cycling or actually race now or in the past, people don't realise just how fast these riders go. Take into account the fact that cycling as a sport is very assessable to the public, when the peloton pass you only three feet away doing 30+mph getting the 'perfect' shot is pretty difficult and takes much more skill than luck. If, I presume like Bill, you know about cycle racing, tactics, angles of attack, breaking points, being in the right place at the right time because you know the sport etc and know what racing cyclists want to look at then Bill is spot on. My first port of call for inspiration is Graham Watson closely followed by Bills contributions on this forum. 'Nuff said. Keep them coming Bill.

Number 2 is my fave... even more so than the second track sprint shot. Reason - you can see the finish line and it's immediately apparent that those guys are throwing their all into getting over that line first. But then I ride and shoot cycling myself so know this, whereas a non-cyclist may not as has been pointed out but that doesn't make it any less of a great shot.

LOL at the shot in the dark... time to upgrade to a 1DMkIV and crank up the ISO maybe?

X-images wrote in post #10371030
Number 2 is my fave... even more so than the second track sprint shot. Reason - you can see the finish line and it's immediately apparent that those guys are throwing their all into getting over that line first. But then I ride and shoot cycling myself so know this, whereas a non-cyclist may not as has been pointed out but that doesn't make it any less of a great shot.

LOL at the shot in the dark... time to upgrade to a 1DMkIV and crank up the ISO maybe?

I like your style.

Not in the budget, sadly. However, I should be receiving a Quantum Turbo flash pack shortly. That should increase my keeper rate under low light conditions.