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Thread started 27 Jun 2010 (Sunday) 18:14
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The Zero Noise Stuff...Hard for me to understand.

 
Viva-photography
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Jun 27, 2010 18:14 |  #1

I know that there is program called "Zero Noise"
I think it has been released...?

But I don't understand it quite really.
Do you have to run linux?
Do I have to download another program?

How does it work?

Can someone put it in simple layman terms for me?


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taylor_h
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Jun 27, 2010 18:48 |  #2

Viva-photography wrote in post #10436387 (external link)
I know that there is program called "Zero Noise"
I think it has been released...?

But I don't understand it quite really.
Do you have to run linux?
Do I have to download another program?

How does it work?

Can someone put it in simple layman terms for me?

There's two versions of Zero Noise - one for Windows-based systems and one for Linux. The Linux has the advantage of not having any watermarks (The Windows version adds a red X across the image for merges with more than 2 source images) and that it runs faster than its Windows counterpart.

The only other software that you need is DCRaw, which is a standalone console/terminal application that is used to demosaic the input camera RAW files.

Zero Noise Tutorial: http://www.guillermolu​ijk.com/tutorial/zeron​oise/index.htm (external link) (English translation available by clicking the flag on the left)
Zero Noise Download Page: http://www.guillermolu​ijk.com/software/zeron​oise/index.htm (external link)
DCRaw Website: http://www.cybercom.ne​t/~dcoffin/dcraw/ (external link)

I hope that helps :)


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Jun 28, 2010 07:46 |  #3

taylor_h wrote in post #10436543 (external link)
TThe Linux has the advantage of not having any watermarks (The Windows version adds a red X across the image for merges with more than 2 source images)

Is there a windows version that does not watermark or a way to make it stop ($, etc.)?


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dpbdc
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Jul 30, 2010 17:56 |  #4

Don't mean to revive a dead thread for nothing, but I have spent the better part of the week searching on and off and have found myself in the same spot....

I am trying to run Zero Noise on my Mac through the most recent Ubuntu via Parallels. I have everything installed, used the Software Center in Ubuntu to install DCRaw, yet I am completely unable to get the ZN app to run.

I have tried to install the ZN app using command line permissions and the like, but I cannot even seem to get into the correct directory.

I am VERY new to Linux, so this is all greek to me, but I have spent a lot of time trying to get the hang of the procedures and am coming up empty.

Is there anywhere that I can find a step by step instruction for installing ZN into UNIX so I can work with this incredible program? I'm eager to rework some of my best shots with this....

I know this thread is not setup for tech support like this, so forgive me if I am posting in the wrong spot, but it has become frustrating to get this working and I am hoping some of the experts here can shed some light...!

Thanks in advance!
Dave




  
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_GUI_
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Jul 30, 2010 18:42 |  #5

Maybe Kirk's tutorial can be of help: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=775795.

He managed to run Linux's ZN on his Mac.

In two weeks I'll take some holidays and plan to allow ZN work with TIFF files, not just RAW files, and will set the watermark for >3 images (not >2 images like it is set now).

CannedHeat wrote in post #10439444 (external link)
Is there a windows version that does not watermark or a way to make it stop ($, etc.)?

Not really, I have decided not to set it free so far. It is not for sale either. But with 3 shots (even with 2 shots 4EV apart), wonderful results can be obtained. One of the things I like to use ZN for is to demistify the idea of the more shots the better in HDR.

Regards


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dpbdc
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Jul 30, 2010 20:32 |  #6

_GUI_ wrote in post #10633858 (external link)
Maybe Kirk's tutorial can be of help: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=775795.

He managed to run Linux's ZN on his Mac.


Regards

Hi Guillermo, thanks for the prompt reply and all your work with your software. It is definitely something else!

Thanks for the link. I did read through the thread entirely recently, and it is a great tutorial, but I don't recall it being helpful for actually getting the program running. Perhaps I missed something though. I will revisit it again tonight and see if perhaps it can be more helpful in my situation.

Cheers
Dave




  
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Jul 31, 2010 06:21 |  #7

CannedHeat wrote in post #10439444 (external link)
Is there a windows version that does not watermark or a way to make it stop ($, etc.)?

_GUI_ wrote in post #10633858 (external link)
Not really, I have decided not to set it free so far. It is not for sale either. But with 3 shots (even with 2 shots 4EV apart), wonderful results can be obtained. One of the things I like to use ZN for is to demistify the idea of the more shots the better in HDR.

Thanks for your honesty. I hope you don't mind mine. It may very well be a good app and create "wonderful results" as you say, but there is little incentive for people to install and try it if they know that the watermark is a permanent feature and even purchase of the software to remove it is not an option.

Images with "wonderful results" but that are unusable because they have a permanent watermark on them is just not worth the time to install and learn. Investing time to producie images that one knows will be unusable is "just playing around", and who has time for that?

But please keep us all informed and especially when you decide to make removal of the watermark possible.


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_GUI_
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Jul 31, 2010 08:47 |  #8

CannedHeat wrote in post #10636127 (external link)
It may very well be a good app and create "wonderful results" as you say, but there is little incentive for people to install and try it if they know that the watermark is a permanent feature.

The watermark only appears in the Windows version, and only if you blend more than 2 RAW files (more than 3 RAW files in two weeks, as soon as I can take some holidays time to write a new version that will allow 3 input files without the watermark, and also will allow to open TIFF files, not only RAW files).

The point for all this trouble is some kind of disappointment. I don't intend to make money of this program, otherwise I'd try to sell it. But after (let me check...) 19.000 downloads of the software, I have just received 4 or 5 donations to support it. This means either the software is not of interest to those 19.000 testers, or there is a clear unbalance between my effort and the feedback received. In this situation, I feel it is not fair that I give all my work and effort for free, or at least not entirely. Believe me that this is the only reason for the watermark.

I would like to thank those few like Kirk in this forum that understood perfectly the point of this program (basically because they really know what HDR is about in a digital camera), and have helped to promote it because they really think the software works and is useful.

Regards


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luigis
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Jul 31, 2010 09:24 |  #9

Maybe the marketing strategy "You can't use it for free and you can't buy it either" is not the best? :)


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_GUI_
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Jul 31, 2010 09:42 |  #10

luigis wrote in post #10636608 (external link)
Maybe the marketing strategy "You can't use it for free and you can't buy it either" is not the best? :)

First talking about marketing strategies is nonsense since there is nothing for sale.

Second it can be used for free, I don't know what made you think the opposite. In the Linux version with an unlimited number of input files and in the Windows version limited to 2 input files (like I did here (external link) and here (external link) with great results), and soon to 3 input files.

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Jul 31, 2010 10:20 as a reply to  @ _GUI_'s post |  #11

Alternatively, donate something for all the amazing effort he has put into Zero Noise. I am sure most people that use it could afford 20 euros. You'll spend more than that for a small meal these days. And I look at the Linux people here a well -

I don't get the "I want it all for free" stuff. Unless it is a true bit of open source with many contributing, people should get rewards for the effort.

I doubt people here would give away their images for nothing just because others think they should.


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Jul 31, 2010 10:45 |  #12

_GUI_ wrote in post #10636506 (external link)
The point for all this trouble is some kind of disappointment. I don't intend to make money of this program, otherwise I'd try to sell it. But after (let me check...) 19.000 downloads of the software, I have just received 4 or 5 donations to support it. This means either the software is not of interest to those 19.000 testers, or there is a clear unbalance between my effort and the feedback received.

That is exactly the point I am trying to make. Horrendous numbers of downloads, little apparent usage. You have to understand that a large percentage of people are not going to take the time to give you feedback.

If a person downloads the program, has trouble installing (like reported above) or successfully uses it, but then discovers the permanent watermark, they may simply walk away from it. Many will not take the time to tell you why.

The disparity between the downloads and donations may indicate just that.

If you want people to take an interest in your program and give you feedback so you can improve it, you have to give them an incentive to do so. A reason to give you some of their time. That incentive is simple: a program that produces a good image they can use.

Your marketing strategy, whether or not you want to make a profit or give it away for free is an entirely different point and decision.

When the majority of people that download your program (and we all know very well windows users far outnumber linux users) find out there is a permanent watermark, they will simply discard it and move on.

Try to see things from the user's point of view and answer this question: why would I want to download, install, and spend time learning how to use a program that ultimately may not produce an image I can do anything with.


luigis wrote in post #10636608 (external link)
Maybe the marketing strategy "You can't use it for free and you can't buy it either" is not the best? :)

Good point. I admire his programming skills, but I think he needs to make a decision on what he wishes to accomplish for all his hard work.


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Jul 31, 2010 10:47 |  #13

bunyarra wrote in post #10636843 (external link)
I don't get the "I want it all for free" stuff. Unless it is a true bit of open source with many contributing, people should get rewards for the effort.

I doubt people here would give away their images for nothing just because others think they should.

Please take a little time to read and understand the posts. Nobody has said "I want it for free."

What I have said is that whether or not it is for free, why would I waste my time installing and learning a program that ultimately may produce an image that is unusable because of a permanent watermark?

I am more than willing to pay for a good program. I am not willing to waste my time at known fruitless efforts.


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Marlon0723
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Jul 31, 2010 11:52 |  #14

maybe a good suggestion would be removing the watermarks and make the program usable for 1-month like a trial version and then the user have the option to continue after the trial period. If they choose to continue they need to pay or donate and if not a watermarks will automatically appear when they continue to use it...
by the way...very thanks to Guillermo for creating this very good program..cant wait for the new version of zero noise..

rgds




  
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Jul 31, 2010 12:01 |  #15

CannedHeat wrote in post #10636976 (external link)
why would I waste my time installing and learning a program that ultimately may produce an image that is unusable because of a permanent watermark?.

You seem to selectively and repeteadly ignore the fact that the watermark only appears when more than 2 input files are used. Anyone reading you will automatically think the program always inserts a watermark, and this is false.

In addition to that I have just compiled a new build that allows 3 input files, download it here: zeronoisev1.1cannedhea​tspecialedition.zip (external link). I previously said that was going to incorporate this to the v1.2 version coming in two weeks, that will also be able to open TIFF files so that everyone can use his preferred RAW developer for white balance, chromatic aberration correction, distorsion, hot pixel elimination,... These are the weak points of DCRAW that ZN is using now.

Now I will show an example of blending 2 RAW files 4EV apart with ZN. We shot this scene twice, once preserving the window highlights, and an additional shot 4 stops more exposed:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


None of them by itself would have allowed to capture all the DR. One has noisy shadows and the other blown highlights:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


The reason for this is that it was a HDR scene, about 12 stops. After merging the 2 RAW files in ZN we can check this using Histogrammar (external link), a freeware program I wrote that allows to plot an unprocessed image's histogram in EV divisions (the plot is very accurate thanks to sensor linearity (external link)):

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


ZN's output image summarizes the best of the input files: it has preserved highlights and noisefree shadows (external link). Processing ZN's output with curves we obtain the following unusable image that was however published in several arquitecture magazines:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


Regards

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