Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 30 Jun 2010 (Wednesday) 08:26
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Solving Camera/Lens Hypochondria

 
scobols
Goldmember
Avatar
1,262 posts
Gallery: 84 photos
Likes: 396
Joined Dec 2006
Location: Waconia, MN
     
Jun 30, 2010 08:26 |  #1

An interesting blog post regarding the "bad" lens or camera you just bought/almost bought/thought about buying:

http://photofocus.com …-cameralens-hypochondria/ (external link)

Scott


www.scottbolster.com (external link)
facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Kento
Goldmember
Avatar
1,207 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Jul 2008
Location: Innsbruck, Austria
     
Jun 30, 2010 08:30 |  #2

Hahaha, nice article, totally agree with it.... glad somebody finely said it!


My Tools
-Jesse
Unknown-Studio.com

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
saea501
... spilled over a little on the panties
Avatar
6,331 posts
Gallery: 42 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 6371
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Florida
     
Jun 30, 2010 10:22 as a reply to  @ Kento's post |  #3

Man....truer words were never spoken.

Sounds like Ken Roc............well, you know who.


Remember what the DorMouse said.....feed your head.
Bob
https://www.flickr.com …282@N06/with/38​203470844/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Gregg.Siam
Goldmember
Avatar
2,383 posts
Joined Jun 2010
Location: Bangkok
     
Jun 30, 2010 10:43 as a reply to  @ saea501's post |  #4

yeah, I used to tell people the same thing when I was giving advise on buying a handgun. Most modern guns are far more accurate than what people can shoot.


5D MKIII | 24-105mm f/4 L| 50mm f/1.8 | 600EX-RT [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=bl​ue][FONT="]|
∞ 500px (external link)
flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
yogestee
"my posts can be a little colourful"
Avatar
13,845 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 35
Joined Dec 2007
Location: Australia
     
Jun 30, 2010 11:20 as a reply to  @ Gregg.Siam's post |  #5

I share the same views as expressed in the article..The Internet is a rumour mill..

I go away shaking my head when I read, "I've had three copies of lens XYZ and I still can't get sharp images.. What's wrong with this lens?"

You are a dill brother,, look at your shooting techniques:rolleyes:


Jurgen
50D~700D~EOS M~G11~S95~GoPro Hero4 Silver
http://www.pbase.com/j​urgentreue (external link)
The Title Fairy,, off with her head!!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
yourdoinitwrong
Goldmember
Avatar
2,394 posts
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Indiana
     
Jun 30, 2010 11:27 as a reply to  @ yogestee's post |  #6

What is he talking about? I've never seen anything like that here........ :rolleyes:


5D4 w/BG-E20, 24-105 f/4L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L, 85 f/1.8, 100 f/2.8L IS Macro, Sigma 50 f/1.4
Full List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
48,453 posts
Gallery: 84 photos
Likes: 4552
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
     
Jun 30, 2010 11:37 |  #7

Yes, I agree with most of what he says,

However I feel the writing style puts the author as being guilty of the same basic issue he is ranting against.
Not the specifics, but the root of the larger issue. That is exaggeration. (note I say exaggeration, and NOT gross over exaggeration for example, you'll soon grasp why :) )

Sentences like this one for example;
98% of ALL cameras and ALL lenses are better than 99% of ALL photographers! Yes, VERY, VERY rarely, a camera may ship with extremely minor faults. It may even back focus by 1/10th of a millimeter.

Now if the sentence read;
98% of ALL cameras and ALL lenses are better than 99% of ALL photographers! Yes, rarely, a camera will ship with faults.

....then I'd have no counter complaint, but his tendency is identical to the people and issues which he is complaining about in the article. that is exaggeration, and removing, or at least diminishing strongly, the possibilities of what he believes to be the case being incorrect.

With that sentence as I interpret it, he is saying that bad equipment never happens, and even when it does it is so small a factor that we should not notice it and live with it. He absolutely dismisses the possibility of a piece of gear being shipped so bad it is useless. Seriously, read that sentence again.

IMHO, that type of posturing blows his case wide open to the same ridicule he is posting.

Here on POTN we are seeing a lot of both sides,. and frankly as some may have seen, I am not too happy with the assumption that someone is a "hypochondriac tool" the moment someone comes here to ask advice feeling they may have bad equipment.

The answer is that neither case of exaggeration, of swinging to far to either one direction, is the correct approach.

We have to allow for both (or more) possibilities being valid when a thread like the one the author is ranting against, is posted.

We also need to remember that the reason for this forum is to aid people that are having these issue
,. and insulting them is never a solid way to bring someone around to the right way of thinking, and it's against the forums rules.

ie: even the hypochondriac tool needs to be steered the right way, and insulting them or dismissing them is never going to do it.

Yes, when a new member, a nOOb if you like, posts a question with a title that appears inflammatory, followed with a post that removes the possibility of human error, the odds are at least even that the OP is in the wrong,. and is absolutely in the wrong in how they have positioned the question on a forum.

But THEY are the newcomer, they don't know this yet, and WE should know better than to take the bait and react with similar opposing rhetoric based on identically unscientific reactionary emotional response. (like the author of this article is doing)

A new forum member simply may not know yet how to pose a question without bringing in aspects that will incite.
We on the other hand, should know,.. and react accordingly to bring things to a positive resolution.


The crime is exaggeration, dismissal of the possibilities that we could be wrong, and an unwavering insistence that others see things the same way.
The author is guilty of the exact same crime.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Snydremark
my very own Lightrules moment
18,249 posts
Gallery: 44 photos
Likes: 1337
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
     
Jun 30, 2010 11:59 as a reply to  @ Gregg.Siam's post |  #8

Good laugh for the morning; thanks!


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 529
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jun 30, 2010 12:11 |  #9

Good analysis, Jake!


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DStanic
Cream of the Crop
6,148 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Canada
     
Jun 30, 2010 12:18 |  #10

The only brand new lens I've ever bought was my Sigma 24-60- a lens that seems to be very common to have focus issues (if you read the lens sample thread). But guess what, mine works great!

I have had issues with a nifty fifty and a Sigma 70-200 macro (that particular Sigma, known to have issues) but I bought them used and the person selling them might have been getting rid of them for obvious reasons.

It would be interesting to do a poll, one where all members had to participate.. and see what % has never had issues with gear, because the people with issues are louder then the ones that don't.


Sony A6000, 16-50PZ, 55-210, 35mm 1.8 OSS
Canon 60D, 30D
Tamron 28-75 2.8, Tamron 17-35, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 85mm 1.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
48,453 posts
Gallery: 84 photos
Likes: 4552
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
     
Jun 30, 2010 12:40 |  #11

The Poll would still be colored though, as a lot of membership is driven by people coming looking for advice on what they feel is bad equipment,
ie: the forum is already made up of a larger percentage of unhappy customers than the real world is. It's a part of the simple fact that "those with issues are louder", as those with issues are also more likely to register here (or elsewhere) in the first place.

that all said,. if everyone did respond, I am sure the majority here would still be more satisfied than not. There is no question in my mind that broken gear is not the norm.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mikekelley
"Meow! Bark! Honk! Hiss! Grrr! Tweet!"
Avatar
7,317 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Feb 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
     
Jun 30, 2010 12:52 |  #12

That whole article can be summed up with one of his lines:

We’re FAR too focused on our tools folks and not nearly focused enough on our subjects!


Los Angeles-Based Architectural, Interior, And Luxury Real Estate Photography (external link)
How To Photograph Real Estate and Architecture (external link)
My Fine Art Galleries (external link)
My articles at Fstoppers.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tonylong
...winded
Avatar
54,657 posts
Gallery: 60 photos
Likes: 529
Joined Sep 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
     
Jun 30, 2010 12:56 |  #13

It's a fact that major manufacturing concerns like Canon factor in a maximum of a 5% return rate on released products, although early in the life cycle there can of course be unforseen problems. As the product matures, the return rate can be expected to go down. Of course, the "goal" is zero defects, but of course that's an ideal, not reality based.

So, for a mature product, maybe 2 out of 100 units will be returned for rework and those are the ones we hear about. Now, of those returned, a fair number are tested and No Problem Found is designated and they go back out into the market, although intermittent failures can fall into that category.

the point is, though, that it should be no surprise to hear about some field failures -- it's expected even if it makes us sad. But hearing about 1 or 2 in 100 does not mean that camera makers are failing in their job, just that not all problems get caught in your mass production manufacturing line. The "class problems" typically get worked out over the late months of the development cycle or the very early days of a new release (like happened with the 1D3, I'm sure Canon engineers were putting in plenty of frustrating overtime to diagnose those problems and come up with some kind of fix).


Tony
Two Canon cameras (5DC, 30D), three Canon lenses (24-105, 100-400, 100mm macro)
Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
arentol
Goldmember
1,305 posts
Joined Jun 2009
Location: Seattle WA
     
Jun 30, 2010 13:12 |  #14

He basically states that 1% of cameras and lenses have major problems and slightly more than that, perhaps 2%-3% have minor issues that do need some form of resolution.

How many users are on this forum? How many new cameras or lenses does each user purchase on average per year? Multiply that out, and suddenly you have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of genuine issues per year. So of course you will see quite a few posts on the subject.

People forget the scale of the internet. There are about 1.9 BILLION people using the internet these days, and probably 99.9% of all people that use other high-tech stuff on a regular basis are on the internet. So if 100,000 copies of a lens are made in a year and 3% have some kind of issue (which is fairly typical for most high tech products), then that is 3,000 bad lenses, all in the hands of internet users. You can be certain that if the issue is noticed these people WILL post somewhere about it.

So it is entirely possible all these people he is complaining about have genuine and valid complaints and he is the one that is the real whiner.

Or it could just be that most people suck at photography.


5D3 | Rokinon 14 f/2.8 | 16-35L II | TS-E 24L | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | Voigtlander 40 f/2.0 | Σ 50 f/1.4 | MP-E 65 | 70-200 2.8L IS II | Σ 85 f/1.4 | Zeiss 100 f/2 | Σ 120-300 f/2.8 OS | 580 EX II | 430 EX II | Fuji X10 | OM-D E-M5 | http://www.mikehjphoto​.com/ (external link)
*****Lenses For Sale (external link)*****

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
birdfromboat
Goldmember
Avatar
1,839 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Mar 2008
Location: somewhere in Oregon trying to keep this laptop dry
     
Jun 30, 2010 22:33 |  #15

I don't know where and when the first photographer doubted the quality of the high priced equipment he was purchasing. I suspect someone got a bad brownie and told everyone at the lodge about it.

For me, I remember hearing stories passed down from 1960's pros about guys buying a dozen copies of a lens they wanted, taking them all home and carefully focusing on a newspaper classified ads page and then keeping the one that was marginally better and returning the rest so the next pro could do the same thing. Never buy the first lens a store clerk hands you they said, never buy one of the last ones in the store, if you want a good lens you need to have the capitol investment to buy a dozen, and the luck to find the one you want.

definitely not true today, but I have to wonder if these stories were the beginnings of the kind of buyers fear I see here all the time.

when was the last time you saw a rant about how perfectly well someones experience with product quality was going? People get motivated to post about problems, not the lack of them.

I have owned twenty copies of various canon lenses new and used in the past two and a half years, and been concerned about a few enough to run a few tests and assure myself everything was OK, and so far everything has been OK. Just venting......


5D, 10D, G10, the required 100 macro, 24-70, 70-200 f/2.8, 300 f2.8)
Looking through a glass un-yun

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,767 views & 0 likes for this thread
Solving Camera/Lens Hypochondria
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Andylangs
846 guests, 375 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.