7D noise at ISO100? (very large screen cap to show the problem!)

What's the deal with this:
http://gear.benjacobse​nphoto.com …-07-01-at-11-00-15-pm.png

That's one 7D shot and one D700 shot, both at 100% on my screen. I know it's well above the "rules" for maximum resolutions, but bear with me, it's to make a point and the only image I'll hotlink in the thread...

anyway, it's obvious canon has gone after the high ISO end with their recent bodies (5Dii and 7D). I saw this with the 5Dii and it bothered me a bit, and now I'm considering a 7D and I'm seeing it again. Those 2 shots are pretty much straight out of the camera (WB tweaks to try to get them close) JPEGs. Yes JPEGs. The 7D clearly has more resolution, and it's shot with a cropper at full 300mm where the D700 is FF and shot around 230mm, so you could say the distance to the subject is helping the D700 resolve more detail (and it's obviously different lenses even though they're both 70-300s with stabilization).

BUT!!!! What's the deal with the noise? Because the 7D has ~50% more resolution, will they print pretty similarly at the same size? The D700 is NOT perfect either, it's just MUCH harder to see at 100%. Yes I know prints are what matters, but I'm considering buying a 7D so I'm trying to see what the current canon camp's thoughts are on the sensor in the 7D? Is this an issue? Does it hide well in prints? Does running NR on ISO 100 shots cure it? Or should I stick with a Nikon?

I'm having the same problem with my T1i

I'd bet any canon with 6400 as a native ISO has this issue.

but my question is, is it just a pixel peeping issue, or does it show up in prints etc?

wow! that's at ISO 100? hmmmm....

Fun exercise, but invalid test procedure.
To make comparison, wouldn't you have to make the exact same shot with both, same focal length, same viewpoint and distance, at a lower f/stop to avoid diffraction (i.e., like f/5 instead of f/8), and then up-rez the D700 shot to match the pixel resolution of the 7D?
If you're not equalizing the pixel resolutions before viewing on screen, you'll drive yourself bonkers.

In a non-focal length limited situation, the D700 sensor must surely out resolve the 7D, particularly in higher-ISO or in hot outdoors temps (shooting in heat makes digital sensors generate noise at any ISO).
In a focal length limited scene, where you might have to crop D700 image to fill screen when viewing at 100%, the 7D will out resolve.

The thought is that Canon was able to get the high ISO performance at the expense of low ISO performance. I don't know. I do two things now with the 7D to combat this, I shoot a bit to the right to brighten up the shots, then bring them down later, and I try to get slightly faster than normal shutter speeds to get crisper 100% view IQ. It seems to help a bit.

J Rabin wrote in post #10464021
Fun exercise, but invalid test procedure.
To make comparison, wouldn't you have to make the exact same shot with both, same focal length, same viewpoint and distance, at a lower f/stop to avoid diffraction (i.e., like f/5 instead of f/8), and then up-rez the D700 shot to match the pixel resolution of the 7D?
If you're not equalizing the pixel resolutions before viewing on screen, you'll drive yourself bonkers.

In a non-focal length limited situation, the D700 sensor must surely out resolve the 7D, particularly in higher-ISO or in hot outdoors temps (shooting in heat makes digital sensors generate noise at any ISO).
In a focal length limited scene, where you might have to crop D700 image to fill screen when viewing at 100%, the 7D will out resolve.

this is not the issue of the OP though...

he was just merely comparing the photos at ISO 100.. I think we could disregard the same focal length etc.. thing. as we are comparing ISO here at the same environment.

and the 7D shots really seems noisy at IS 100

here is a shot of the D700 at ISO 1100 @ 100% crop

HTTP response: 403 | MIME changed to 'image/png'

I am kind of a newbe, but, I was using a 40D (just bought a 7D) and a 300mm f/4 lens one day and was shooting F-16's as the were coming in to land. I do not remember the the settings now but I usually shot at iso 400 so I am sure I was that day too, but noticed a lot of them were real noisy, but a few were perfect. You can see them at the link below.
I wondered why some were great and some noisy. So I started comparing them, turns out, all the good ones had a shutter speed of less than 2000, all the noisy ones were faster. I was in AV and spot metering, and noticed that it all depended on where my focus point was on the jet (metering point too).

Maybe you are seeing the same thing?

Tom

http://peregrineflier.​smugmug.com …007_2jKGq#82187​2347_U6L6z

Any camera can exhibit noise at 100 ISO..

It's all about exposure.. Underexpose and then bring the exposure up in post processing and bingo,,noise.. Also, you'll always see more noise in dark areas..

yogestee wrote in post #10464527
Any camera can exhibit noise at 100 ISO..

It's all about exposure.. Underexpose and then bring the exposure up in post processing and bingo,,noise.. Also, you'll always see more noise in dark areas..

This plus a sensor crammed the to brim with pixels and a native ISO that lends itself to perform better at high ISO equals your results. Add that on top of the fact that you're comparing a full frame camera that's only got 12mp on the sensor and guess what; the larger sensor with fewer pixels will look much better at 100% than a smaller sensor with more pixels.

It would also help if the 7D shot in the OP's link was actually in focus.

Ben, I think that you are making an apples and oranges comparison. First of all, I must protest that screen captures don't got no EXIF!

I think that the content of the two images is too different to make a very meaningful comparison. I am assuming that the left image is from the 7D. Judging by the shadow direction from the vertical stabilizer, the 7D shot appears to be more towards the sun than the other image. The brightness of the sky and the white upper fuselage means that the contrast between the light and dark areas will be very high and if you happened to have Auto Lighting Optimizer turned on, that is going to really pull the dark areas up and make noise more evident. The image on the right is a bit underexposed and has less dynamic range in the scene to contend with. The noise in the dark areas is more likely to be clipped or simply too dark to be noticeable. I have shot images at ISO 100 on my 7D where the noise in dark areas was noticeable and other images did not show any noise. For me, exposure seems to make the difference, but we have to expose for the whole image and I would rather have noise in dark areas than clipped highlights.

And 7D is a crop, so the sensor density is a lot higher, so the area to receive light is a lot smaller, that makes some difference too. In addition, shooting anything that far is prompt to have more noise than shooting at a shorter distance, because there is a larger air gap. So the result make sense to me.

cheungupdt wrote in post #10464831
.... shooting anything that far is prompt to have more noise than shooting at a shorter distance, because there is a larger air gap.....

If you are referring to atmospheric conditions like haze, UV, heat wave scintillation, etc., those factors are not noise because they really exist and are just being captured. There are also lens issues like flare, focus sharpness, CA, and distortion, but those also are not noise. All noise comes from within the camera, but can be made better or worse by post processing.

Yep, 7D suck's don't it.

If you guys are really fussed about the Noise either go full frame or get a 40D