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Thread started 07 Jul 2010 (Wednesday) 01:16
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My 5D2 Has Low Iso Banding

 
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kcbrown
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Jul 20, 2010 17:24 |  #241

Poe wrote in post #10571370 (external link)
Well, as kcbrown pointed out here: https://photography-on-the.net …?p=10565877&pos​tcount=225 the T2i which has the same sensor as the 7D, doesn't exhibit the FPN like the 7D does, which I think, implies that there's something faulty in the 5D2/7D electronics that was either fixed or left out of the T2i.

From what I understand, the T2i uses half the number of read channels as the 7D when pulling data from the sensor. It's entirely possible that this is what makes the difference.


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robbym
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Jul 20, 2010 19:23 |  #242

Don't worry it's not you, it's a limitation of the camera just like the slow AF and slow continuous mode. I'm thinking of suplementing with a 7D or 1D4 as an action body. The good news is that under ideal outdoor and studio conditions the 5D2 is a killer portrait body paired with an 85L II, 135L or 200L. I'm getting head and shoulder shots I never could have dreamed of with APS-C. Focus on the positive and work around the deficits. Then again if you want to try to fix it try topaz denoise 4 I've found it quite impressive (within limits). Good luck!

@smorter - thank you!


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smorter
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Jul 20, 2010 19:44 |  #243

Yeah definitely love the portraits with this camera :D

kcbrown wrote in post #10573086 (external link)
Um, somehow, the link to the thread you're referring to never actually made it into your message. Could you try again, please?

sorry about that, edited, also direct link here: https://photography-on-the.net …p?p=10520863&po​stcount=83
(It's on page 6)


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Stealthy ­ Ninja
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Jul 20, 2010 21:48 |  #244
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elitejp wrote in post #10571091 (external link)
As Homer Simpson put it once, "Its funny cause its true"

So did Fat Tony in Season 3. The one titled "Bart the Murderer".

I'm full of dumb facts.

Just like this thread. :lol:


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DL.Photography wrote in post #10571990 (external link)
Hey, all those negative Nikon Post/threads and you've turned into a Noink =P JK

What convinced you to make the switch? :lol:

Well, it was the banding at low ISOs on the 5DII that threw me over the edge. ;) :p :lol:




  
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kurt765
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Jul 20, 2010 22:20 |  #245

Also, for those of you with 5DIIs that do NOT exhibit this banding, would you mind posting a pic as an example? Feel free to push the blacks to an extreme degree so we can see the noise pattern from your camera.


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Stealthy ­ Ninja
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Jul 20, 2010 22:36 |  #246
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Here's a little sample from me (remember I use to own a 5DII).

This is ISO 400 58mm f/4.5 0.3 second exposure (on a tripod) 100% crop at the bottom.

There be banding. ;) Not too bad though. Mild (Color 15 | Luminance 0) NR has been added to this in LR3.


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kurt765
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Jul 20, 2010 23:01 |  #247

Well the pattern does start to disappear from ISO 400 and above. How about an ISO 100 or 200 shot?


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rx7speed
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Jul 20, 2010 23:50 |  #248

I do see some slight banding, though not a huge amount as I have seen on some photos.

what I do notice though that is more distracting then the banding though is the huge dust spot thouhg :p


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Jul 21, 2010 00:00 |  #249

kcbrown wrote in post #10573100 (external link)
From what I understand, the T2i uses half the number of read channels as the 7D when pulling data from the sensor. It's entirely possible that this is what makes the difference.

The number of read channels doesn't change when you switch ISOs does it? If not, then why should the FPN disappear when raising the ISO gain? Is it getting buried beneath the amplification of other noise?



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arentol
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Jul 21, 2010 02:12 |  #250

kcbrown wrote in post #10559519 (external link)
Today, it's accepted that computers crash. Why? Because they just do. People don't know any differently. They think it's normal. But it doesn't have to be, and shouldn't ever have been. Microsoft, with their junky operating systems and slick marketing, have managed to convince people that it is normal for computers to be unreliable and unstable. That it's normal to have to periodically reboot computers to make them work "properly". When the truth is that those things are necessary because Windows is full of bugs. It is defective, and always has been.

But the truth is that there is no good reason for an operating system to require periodic reboots in order to avoid crashes. How do I know? Because I (and many others, as well) have run my Linux-based systems continuously without a reboot or power cycle for well over a year at a time. When they crash, it's because of a hardware fault, and the hardware gets replaced. When they "reboot", it's because the power goes out and stays out long enough to run the batteries in my uninterruptible power supply dry. But they otherwise stay up and running, continuously. It can be done. It has been done, routinely, even. But people have been trained through experience to think it's normal to not be able to do that. They have adapted to mediocrity and been trained to believe that it's normal and acceptable.

Huh?

I don't accept that computers crash, and in my experience they don't crash almost ever, and when they do it is frequently because of bad hardware, not bad OS.

I have a PC at work that I built myself running Windows 7 and overclocked like a mother. It has been running Folding@Home on all 4 real cores and all 4 virtual ones continually for a month now without rebooting. I use it for work and gaming too, so it isn't just running one app all day. I guarantee that if it weren't for the occasional voluntary updates, like newer video card drivers, the system would stay up for over year without breaking a sweat.

Our security camera PC at work which was cheaply built at every level and is running Windows XP stayed up from November 1998 until last week when the PSU finally gave up the ghost. Simple cleaning and PSU swap and it is right back up and is probably good until this new PSU fails.

Back in the Windows NT 4.0 days at my company we only rolled out the major patches. In one 3 year period in the early 00's between 6 servers running 4.0 we had about 10 total reboots. 6 for patches, 4 for hardware issues. None for software problems. This was completely normal for ANY company that purchased quality hardware, like high-end Compaq servers. Those who bought crappy hardware needed lots more reboots, but that was really primarily a hardware issues, not OS.

We had a laptop sitting in our server closet running Windows XP continually for over a year (a remote user connected to a couple times a week for testing) that never needed rebooting.

Even back in the Windows 95 days we had a few dedicated systems at work that ran for months at a time without reboots, and when they did get rebooted it was usually because some user did something stupid and farked something up that called for a reboot to fix.

Don't get me wrong. Some Linux distro's are more stable than any version of Windows released to this point (if you only bought hardware with good drivers available), but only by a slim margin. The vast majority of the apparent stability advantage actually comes from the manner in which it is used, the kind of people that use it, the kind of software available for it, the low amount of malware written for it, and its tendency to be installed on more reliable hardware. It is kind of like how Apples OSs were always considered more "Secure and Virus Free" than Windows PCs. It wasn't because they are actually more secure, it was because there were so few Apple computers in use that nobody bothered writing viruses for them.


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DetlevCM
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Jul 21, 2010 02:58 |  #251

kurt765 wrote in post #10564285 (external link)
You must have some kind of magical 5D2 that doesn't have the problem that many other copies of the camera clearly do.

Or alternatively I've exposed my images right? :)
But honestly - I cannot see any banding in my images... which is odd... and I do need to push shadows...


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kurt765
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Jul 21, 2010 02:59 |  #252

Please post an example. I'm curious. Perhaps you are one of the lucky ones...


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kcbrown
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Jul 21, 2010 03:04 |  #253

Poe wrote in post #10575001 (external link)
The number of read channels doesn't change when you switch ISOs does it? If not, then why should the FPN disappear when raising the ISO gain? Is it getting buried beneath the amplification of other noise?

Well, on the 7D I thought that it might have something to do with the way the column reads are interleaved or something of that sort. I'm very much speculating here. It's entirely possible that the root cause was something else and they fixed it in the T2i and 1D4.

Up until now, I'd never seen the 5D2 maze pattern exhibited anywhere else, but it appears the 7D sensor generates one as well (perhaps much more subtlely). See towards the end of this thread: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=902283 (my message that started it is here: https://photography-on-the.net …?p=10556639&pos​tcount=118).

So while I thought the 7D simply generated vertical banding in the deep shadows, it appears that it may generate more than that. It's quite odd, actually.

However, it's possible that the maze pattern seen there was corrected with a firmware update. I haven't seen such a pattern generated by my camera yet, despite looking for one. It's also possible, however, that the maze pattern was the result of a fault in the RAW converter the reviewer referred to by the aforementioned thread used to generate his images.


It's unfortunate that there are so many interlocking parts involved that it's sometimes very difficult to isolate which ones are responsible for a flaw such as pattern noise...


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
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Stealthy ­ Ninja
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Jul 21, 2010 07:18 |  #254
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rx7speed wrote in post #10574975 (external link)
I do see some slight banding, though not a huge amount as I have seen on some photos.

what I do notice though that is more distracting then the banding though is the huge dust spot thouhg :p

LOL that dust spot is Canon's fault. :p :p




  
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Jul 21, 2010 07:30 |  #255

robbym wrote in post #10573731 (external link)
Don't worry it's not you, it's a limitation of the camera just like the slow AF and slow continuous mode. I'm thinking of suplementing with a 7D or 1D4 as an action body. The good news is that under ideal outdoor and studio conditions the 5D2 is a killer portrait body paired with an 85L II, 135L or 200L. I'm getting head and shoulder shots I never could have dreamed of with APS-C. Focus on the positive and work around the deficits. Then again if you want to try to fix it try topaz denoise 4 I've found it quite impressive (within limits). Good luck!

@smorter - thank you!

Robby, I'm with you. I have followed this thread since I'm seriously considering buying the 5D2 to pair with my 50D. I thank the contributors who have added factual information on this fine camera, which will help me with its use. On the other hand, I appreciate that every product is designed for a specific use and a specific price line, and thus is a mix of compromises. I am certain that Canon engineers and Canon marketers were aware of the various limitations of the 5D2 before the camera came out. Further, Canon has had the opportunity to fix any unintended design faults, should such have existed. I am saving for the 5D2 and will buy it when the time comes, unless a competing product with its own mix of compromises overtakes it. 5D2 with my 135L - yumm.


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My 5D2 Has Low Iso Banding
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