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Thread started 08 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 01:52
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Why are lenses round?

 
sigma ­ pi
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Jul 08, 2010 12:41 |  #46

sangjiny wrote in post #10499762 (external link)
Something I found on the net.

1. Glass lenses are ground and polished using abrasives and the surface shapes required are sherical or, in some cases parabolic in section (some very expensive lenses). To produce images achieving maximum resolution (sharpness) the lens surface must be accurate to very high precision for the lens to deliver full resolution - small fractions of a wavelength of light. The grinding and polishing processes are only assured of producing lenses of the desired acuracy for circular lenses; it is extremely difficult though not impossible to achieve this accuracy for other shapes.

2. Lenses have two sides and to work properly, the spherical surfaces of both sides must be concentric with the lens disk, co-axial and free of "wedge" (one side thicker than the other). By starting with an oversized blank, opticians use a few tricks to trim the blank down to the desired diameter and achieve these requirements - however these tricks can only produce a circular lens because it similar to spinning the lens on a lathe. Lathes cannot produce any other shape.

3. The most desirable properties of a lens are its ability to form sharp images without artifacts, and light gathering power especially in dim lighting.

Both of these properties are maximised by circular lenses, only someone absolutely ignorant of optics theory would attempt any other shape.

There are also a number of aberrations present in the images formed by all lenses and these are generally axially symmetric for circular lenses. Non-circular lenses may produce distortion, coma and astigmatism that are not radially symmetric, which is a very undesirable state of affairs where accurate imaging is required eg in an enlarger, photocopier or aerial camera. I'd add there would also be quite a few angry SLR users if these objectives were not adhered to.

4. There is one special image defect - diffraction - that is particularly caused by non-circular apertures - the diffraction spikes often seen in photographs around bright points or the sun. A circular lens aperture does not produce diffraction spikes. A lens aperture with corners - triangular, square, hexagonal, etc will produce diffraction spikes - even the iris in a camera lens will do this. Again, you would have to be a really dumb optical designer to deliberately introduce such a defect in a lens by making it square.

5. Cost. To make them in any other shape a larger circular lens must be made first and then cut down to the desired shape which is inevitably more expensive and time consuming than using the circular lens as-is.

6. Inside camera lenses, especially zoom lenses, some elements must rotate as you focus or zoom them. Rotating a non-circular lens is going to be tricky if you are also trying to control the orientation of the aberrations and diffraction spikes at the same time.

7. Lastly there is one damn good reason to stick with circular lenses - they are very easy to mount securely in a lens housing with screw-in retaining rings that form an effective seal keeping dirt and moisture out. Non-circular lenses are much harder to mount securely - requiring mountings that are have compound curves (eg spectacle frames).

wow that really covers it :D


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neonlazer
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Jul 08, 2010 12:42 |  #47

SkipD wrote in post #10497755 (external link)
Can you imagine screwing on a square filter?  :p

That's what I was thinking..plus focusing might be a problem...lol


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mehran.mo
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Jul 08, 2010 12:54 |  #48

The real question is: Why aren't they making spherical sensors?

I mean that would make lenses so much more simpler to design. They would also be quite compact. A 24mm lens wouldn't need to be the size of a 100mm lens.


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Madweasel
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Jul 08, 2010 13:15 |  #49

mehran.mo wrote in post #10499917 (external link)
The real question is: Why aren't they making spherical sensors?

I mean that would make lenses so much more simpler to design. They would also be quite compact. A 24mm lens wouldn't need to be the size of a 100mm lens.

The reason is that the radius of curvature required would not be the same for each lens. If you had a fixed lens of fixed focal length your idea would work fine (if it were not much more expensive to produce a sensor chip that was not flat).


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Jul 08, 2010 13:18 |  #50

sangjiny wrote in post #10499762 (external link)
...Glass lenses are ground and polished using abrasives and the surface shapes required are sherical or, in some cases parabolic in section ...

Most of what you wrote is correct, but you ought to read up on aspherical lenses (which are not parabolical), which are now quite common and are produced in a variety of ways including moulding.


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SkipD
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Jul 08, 2010 13:22 |  #51

rklepper wrote in post #10499807 (external link)
And then there is the whole issue of the zoom and focus rings. Square lenses would make that a challenge.

Beyond the idea quoted here, one or more of the lens elements in some camera lenses actually rotate while focal length or focus is being changed by the photographer. If any of the lens elements were square, then this would be at least as tough as the zoom and focus ring issue.


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Madweasel
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Jul 08, 2010 13:25 |  #52

Geejay wrote in post #10499745 (external link)
...Uncompensated lenses aren't round, they are spherical, i.e. sections of a sphere. In our eyes the lens projects a coherent/focused image onto a spherical sensor ... That way the image is nominally in focus over all of the projected area.

In a camera the sensor is flat (the fact that it is square or rectangular is irrelevant) and strictly speaking only the very centre of the image will be sharp....

Modern lens designs, especially short, wide angle lenses are designed with aspherical (often moulded) elements that essentially distort the image so that it can be focused more easily on a flat plane, appearing as an evenly lit circle....

Mostly right, but a planar image projection does not automatically require aspherical lenses. "Flat field" lenses were available long before it was practicable to manufacture aspherical elements. Essentially rectilinear lenses are far from simple, as they effectively magnify the image progressively away from the centre. In the same way the focal projection distance of the lens is increased away from the centre to provide a flat image at the film/sensor.


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sigma ­ pi
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Jul 08, 2010 13:29 as a reply to  @ SkipD's post |  #53

They could slide front to rear


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mehran.mo
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Jul 08, 2010 14:04 |  #54

Madweasel wrote in post #10500058 (external link)
The reason is that the radius of curvature required would not be the same for each lens. If you had a fixed lens of fixed focal length your idea would work fine (if it were not much more expensive to produce a sensor chip that was not flat).

That is a good point.

Considering how there are flexible oled panels and all, one would think that one day we can make flexible sensors that would adjust to the curvature of the lens.


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tkbslc
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Jul 08, 2010 14:11 |  #55

I'm trying to picture how one one implement a square aperture


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krb
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Jul 08, 2010 14:14 |  #56

tkbslc wrote in post #10500418 (external link)
I'm trying to picture how one one implement a square aperture

Actually, a square aperture is easy to implement but just imagine that horrible bokeh.


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dlintz
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Jul 08, 2010 14:20 |  #57

mehran.mo wrote in post #10500381 (external link)
That is a good point.

Considering how there are flexible oled panels and all, one would think that one day we can make flexible sensors that would adjust to the curvature of the lens.

Cost and technology aside this would be an interesting innovation...although mantaining even pixel density across the sensor at different degrees of curvature would be tough!

d.


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sebr
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Jul 08, 2010 14:26 |  #58

Interesting question and some good points...


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Jul 08, 2010 14:36 |  #59

A little background:

http://web.canon.jp/im​aging/l-lens/index.html (external link)

http://www.canon.com …um/tech/l_plant​/main.html (external link)

http://www.canon-europe.com …n/ef_lens_work_​iii_en.asp (external link)

,


Canon : EOS R : 5DIV : 5DS R : 5DIII : 7DII : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : RF-24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS II : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 600EX-RT : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...

  
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Jul 08, 2010 15:21 |  #60

Madweasel wrote in post #10500134 (external link)
Mostly right, but a planar image projection does not automatically require aspherical lenses......

Thanks, I was going for simplicity.... :)


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