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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 08 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 15:23
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From 7D to 5D Mk II yes or no

 
themadman
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Jul 08, 2010 17:46 |  #16

If you are looking at 18MP at 100% crop, it won't look that sharp in some circumstances, but 99% of the time, you won't be looking at the photo at 100% crop so I would honestly chill.


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Jeff81
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Jul 08, 2010 17:52 |  #17

I'd have to agree that either there is some user error or you're expecting too much. You should be getting great images out of your 7D. For what its worth, I went from 5D2 to 7D. I wanted the faster auto focus. I don't ever regret my decision and honestly there isn't a huge difference between the two.


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Tom ­ W
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Jul 08, 2010 18:24 |  #18

Rent the 5D2, and shoot a few hundred comparison shots in various situations.


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gtcrispy
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Jul 08, 2010 18:40 |  #19

Outside of the noise at lower ISOs which LR3 does a great job of taking care enough, perhaps some additional work in the PP would help out in getting some of that sharpness back that you think you are missing.


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rickp1
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Jul 09, 2010 06:27 as a reply to  @ gtcrispy's post |  #20

That's what I'm planning on doing, renting a 5D and taking it for a spin.
I kind of get what you guys are thinking, I'm wasting my time etc...

But I can;t help shaking this feeling that I'm not getting the sharpest images I should be getting.

When I first got the soft images, a lot of people said it was me, well as it turned out the AF system was bad and canon fixed it when I sent them the camera. I might not be a pro but I knew something wasn't right. Well that feeling is still there. I've taken some really nice images with my 50D, images that when I looked at them in my computer I said to myself and my fiance,"wow check out the detail, that's really nice". Neither of us have that feeling now, at least not most of the time.
Maybe I have high standards, but IMO, the images can be better without a bunch of PPing.

Well it's time to board my flight. I'll post some of my yellowstone pictures when I get back so you guys can critique.

Talk to you soon
R.


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rickp1
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Jul 21, 2010 11:05 as a reply to  @ rickp1's post |  #21

Here are a couple of the images from my recent yellowstone trip taken with the 7D. I have done some PPing on this image. The eagle picture was taken hand held while floating down a river in a inflatable white water raft type boat.
The other on a tripod using a 17-55mm f2.8 lens.
The rest of the images are being uploaded to photobucket as I write this.
It seems that I've lost the EXIF data after I edited the images, because I can't pull it up in LR or Bridge.

All comments are welcome.

The rest of the images are here:
http://s357.photobucke​t.com …1/rickp1/Yellow​stone%202/ (external link)

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Canon 7D
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Canon 7D
17-55mm f2.8 on a tripod.

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windpig
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Jul 21, 2010 11:26 |  #22

How much initial sharpening is the OP doing? My 7D and 40D require more than my 5DII does. AA filter difference.


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ilumo
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Jul 21, 2010 11:38 |  #23

jwcdds wrote in post #10500954 (external link)
If you can't get "sharp" enough images with the 7D when you're not planning to print large, then the problem is most likely not the camera.

Instead of having 18megapixels to pixel-peep at 100%, you will soon have 21megapixels. Good luck. :)

On a positive note, you sorta have a relatively even trade by ditching the 7D and the 17-55.

21 MP on a FF sensor vs 18 MP on a crop sensor is a big difference. You will have to magnify the crop sensor picture a lot more at 100% view vs the full frame, and that will show the flaws in your technique much more. the full frame sensor is a more forgiving as well. I've noticed that in my shots between my t1i vs the 5d2.
Just because you have shaky hands, or are in situations where you dont have the luxury of a super fast shutter speeds doesnt mean you are a crappy photographer. However, the fact that the full frame needs less enlargement means you will have to be less precise with your photo techniques. A big plus in my book.


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rickp1
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Jul 21, 2010 11:40 as a reply to  @ windpig's post |  #24

I did quite a bit of sharpening on most pictures. Which is my problem with this camera.
I took a lot of images with a tripod and even then the images didn't come out as sharp as they should have IMO.


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m21att1
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Jul 21, 2010 14:31 |  #25

Nevermind, I got to far ahead of myself.


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jwcdds
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Jul 21, 2010 15:49 |  #26

ilumo wrote in post #10577474 (external link)
21 MP on a FF sensor vs 18 MP on a crop sensor is a big difference. You will have to magnify the crop sensor picture a lot more at 100% view vs the full frame, and that will show the flaws in your technique much more. the full frame sensor is a more forgiving as well. I've noticed that in my shots between my t1i vs the 5d2.
Just because you have shaky hands, or are in situations where you dont have the luxury of a super fast shutter speeds doesnt mean you are a crappy photographer. However, the fact that the full frame needs less enlargement means you will have to be less precise with your photo techniques. A big plus in my book.

I'm not quite sure what you're argument is. I take photos by framing them properly with the right lens. So if I wanted to frame something with the 7D + 85, I'd take a similar shot with the 5D2 + 135. I don't see how any enlargement is needed or done in such a scenario, and there should be no difference in technique.

The 3 major knock on any crop sensor camera are:
1) greater noise
2) lack of UWA primes
3) DoF can't be as shallow as on FF.

Sharpness at 100% viewing might be affected by the AA filter, but oftentimes, that can be easily compensated via post-processing. This isn't saying that the 5D2 IQ isn't superior to the 7D. But as many have proven, sharpness is not due to whether one shoots crop or FF.


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mikekelley
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Jul 21, 2010 17:19 |  #27

Julian has nailed it.

I'd love a 7d if I could get over my obsession with wide angle.


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jwcdds
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Jul 21, 2010 17:26 |  #28

mikekelley wrote in post #10579269 (external link)
Julian has nailed it.

I'd love a 7d if I could get over my obsession with wide angle.

Perhaps your salvation will come in the form of a 5D3 (or mythical 3D) w/ improved AF. One can only hope, including myself. :lol:


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WRXTACY
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Jul 21, 2010 17:51 as a reply to  @ jwcdds's post |  #29

Hey uh, rick...those images look pretty damn sharp to me.

And considering the first image you were floating down a river and hand holding...yeah.


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ilumo
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Jul 21, 2010 18:29 |  #30

jwcdds wrote in post #10578850 (external link)
I'm not quite sure what you're argument is. I take photos by framing them properly with the right lens. So if I wanted to frame something with the 7D + 85, I'd take a similar shot with the 5D2 + 135. I don't see how any enlargement is needed or done in such a scenario, and there should be no difference in technique.

The 3 major knock on any crop sensor camera are:
1) greater noise
2) lack of UWA primes
3) DoF can't be as shallow as on FF.

Sharpness at 100% viewing might be affected by the AA filter, but oftentimes, that can be easily compensated via post-processing. This isn't saying that the 5D2 IQ isn't superior to the 7D. But as many have proven, sharpness is not due to whether one shoots crop or FF.

The greater the pixel density, the more magnification you have ( im not sure if that's the proper terminology). Have you ever tried live view at normal magnification ? And then look at it at 10x magnification? See how much more it shake it has? So the crop cameras typically have higher density/magnification so therefore you need more precision to take those tack sharp shots, especially at 100% crop.


Body: Sony a7R IV
Glass: 50mm f/1.8 | 35mm f/1.4L USM | 16-35 f/4.0 IS USML USM | 24-70 f/2.8L II USM | 24-105 f/4.0L IS USM | 70-200 f/2.8L II IS USM | 85mm f/1.4L IS USM | 100mm f/2.8L IS USM | 24mm f/1.4GM | 70-200mm f/2.8GM | Samyang 85mm f/1.4 | Voigtlander 10mm f/5.6
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From 7D to 5D Mk II yes or no
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