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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 08 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 15:23
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From 7D to 5D Mk II yes or no

 
kcbrown
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Jul 27, 2010 04:01 |  #106

rickp1 wrote in post #10607899 (external link)
Kc,
no i did all my testing in auto focus and no live view.

Well, you may have sent the camera off to be serviced already so it may be something of a moot point, but I think it's important to cleanly separate the possibility of the sensor being at fault versus the autofocus being at fault.

The reason is that focusing issues with a properly calibrated camera can usually be dealt with via the microfocus adjustment mechanism, but problems with the image sensor obviously can't be fixed by anyone other than Canon.

Do you still have the camera or have you already sent it in?

If you still have it, then put it on a tripod and try taking manually focused shots with your very sharp lenses when using live view with full magnification. If those shots are soft then it's your sensor. If they're not, then you'll need to use the microadjustment feature to dial in your lenses.


The 7D is more demanding in terms of autofocus than any other camera save the T2i. The reason is that its sensor pixels are smaller, so the precision with which the lens has to autofocus is greater.

If your sensor is good then I suspect that once you perform the proper microfocus adjustments, you'll find the 7D takes very good photographs indeed. Trust me when I tell you that the 7D can autofocus. It even makes my cranky Sigma 50 f/1.4 work reasonably reliably.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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rickp1
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Jul 27, 2010 07:40 as a reply to  @ kcbrown's post |  #107

kc,
i still have it. i'll try that out and see what i get. thanks

R.


Canon 5DMkII | 70-200mm f2.8 IS USM | 24-105mm f4.0 IS USM | 85mm f1.8 prime.

  
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rickp1
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Jul 27, 2010 08:24 as a reply to  @ post 10609721 |  #108

arentol,
thank you for the feedback. You know I'm pretty confused about all this stuff. I just want to focus on picture taking and not this.

What you're saying does make sense. I'm still going to send it in just for peace of mind, maybe just maybe canon missed something, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.

I'll definitely keep what you said in mind.

R.


Canon 5DMkII | 70-200mm f2.8 IS USM | 24-105mm f4.0 IS USM | 85mm f1.8 prime.

  
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kcbrown
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Jul 27, 2010 16:36 |  #109

rickp1 wrote in post #10610703 (external link)
arentol,
thank you for the feedback. You know I'm pretty confused about all this stuff. I just want to focus on picture taking and not this.

What you're saying does make sense. I'm still going to send it in just for peace of mind, maybe just maybe canon missed something, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.

I wouldn't send it in unless you find a real problem, e.g. that you have to use so much microadjustment for your lenses that it's obvious that the calibration of the body is incorrect, or the autofocus appears to be unreliable even in one-shot mode on still targets while on a tripod, or the sensor itself appears to be causing the image to be soft, or something of that sort.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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arentol
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Jul 31, 2010 04:18 |  #110

Another thing to be aware of is that individual sensor units on a 5d2 are about 2.2 times larger than on the 7d and this can have an affect on apparent camera movement blur when peeping. Basically the camera can move about 2.2 times further in any given direction before you get blur with the 5d2, which makes it APPEAR much more tolerant to blur when you pixel peep. However, again when printed at the proper size, or viewed at normal viewing size, the camera blur is not actually worse on the 7d because of this issue. But it can sure make the picture look softer when peeping.

For example, lets assume that the 7d individual sensors are 5 units in size and the 5d2's are 11. Also assume we are taking precisely the same shot (not actually possible, but necessary for the example). Then lets assume that for both shots we have 21 units worth of movement because of camera shake. When we peep the 7d it will have blur spread across 4 pixels. Meanwhile the 5d2's blur will only be spread across 2 pixels. Clearly the 5d2 will look much sharper. However, when you view at normal viewing size, both of them will have the exact same amount of apparent motion blur due to camera movement because when shooting precisely the same shot 21 units is 21 units.

The only way to fix this non-issue when peeping is to use a shutter speed roughly a full stop faster with the 7D than you would use with the 5d2. However, that would likely mean higher iso and more apparent noise, so it is best to just carry on as normal and not worry about it... But be aware of its affect on pixel peeping.


5D3 | Rokinon 14 f/2.8 | 16-35L II | TS-E 24L | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | Voigtlander 40 f/2.0 | Σ 50 f/1.4 | MP-E 65 | 70-200 2.8L IS II | Σ 85 f/1.4 | Zeiss 100 f/2 | Σ 120-300 f/2.8 OS | 580 EX II | 430 EX II | Fuji X10 | OM-D E-M5 | http://www.mikehjphoto​.com/ (external link)
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kcbrown
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Jul 31, 2010 05:39 |  #111

arentol wrote in post #10635949 (external link)
Another thing to be aware of is that individual sensor units on a 5d2 are about 2.2 times larger than on the 7d and this can have an affect on apparent camera movement blur when peeping. Basically the camera can move about 2.2 times further in any given direction before you get blur with the 5d2, which makes it APPEAR much more tolerant to blur when you pixel peep. However, again when printed at the proper size, or viewed at normal viewing size, the camera blur is not actually worse on the 7d because of this issue. But it can sure make the picture look softer when peeping.

This is only true when you're comparing shots of equal focal length. If you compare shots of equal angle of view (which is what most people are concerned with when they're framing a shot) then the amount of motion blur will be about the same for a given shutter speed. That's because camera shake causes angular motion. The amount of camera shake can be considered more or less a constant in angular terms (degrees subtended on average). Smaller angles of view have the effect of magnifying the effects that constant motion, while larger angles of view have the effect of reducing them.

But the "rule of thumb" for what shutter speed to use is focal-length based. Since camera shake is angular motion, its visibility is proportional to the linear resolution of the sensor, not the areal resolution. So the shutter speed you need to use on a crop camera with a 1.6x crop factor would be 1.6 times that of the shutter speed you'd use on a full-frame camera when using the same focal length lens. I simplify that and call it 1.5x, or half again as much, when figuring shutter speed.

Also, because the resolution of a sensor plays a part, and because the "rule of thumb" doesn't really account for it, I simplify further when choosing a shutter speed for a crop camera: I'll use twice the shutter speed the rule of thumb normally calls for. So if my focal length is 100mm, I'll use a shutter speed of 1/200th of a second on my 7D. If I were using a 5Dmk2, I'd use a factor of 1.5 to account for its higher resolution.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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nitehawk55
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Jul 31, 2010 22:01 |  #112

kcbrown wrote in post #10613595 (external link)
I wouldn't send it in unless you find a real problem, e.g. that you have to use so much microadjustment for your lenses that it's obvious that the calibration of the body is incorrect, or the autofocus appears to be unreliable even in one-shot mode on still targets while on a tripod, or the sensor itself appears to be causing the image to be soft, or something of that sort.

The camera is under warranty , why not send it to make sure they didn't miss something with the first repair ?
From what I see there may still be an issue with this camera and best to let Canon look after it .




  
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kcbrown
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Jul 31, 2010 23:39 |  #113

nitehawk55 wrote in post #10639521 (external link)
The camera is under warranty , why not send it to make sure they didn't miss something with the first repair ?
From what I see there may still be an issue with this camera and best to let Canon look after it .

Canon does much better with repairs when you have a specific, articulable problem that they can troubleshoot.

I suppose you could send it in anyway, but if there really is a problem and their basic checks miss it, they'll just tell you that it passes their basic tests and that'll be that.

If that's good enough for you, then it's all good, but I'd rather perform my own controlled tests first to make sure the camera meets my needs. And if it does, then what would be the point of sending it in, especially when the camera's already been the Canon once already and has already been through their final check that they perform before they send it back?


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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nitehawk55
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Aug 02, 2010 22:00 as a reply to  @ kcbrown's post |  #114

As others have mentioned in other threads I guess Canon service does miss a fair bit and it takes 2 or more tries till they get it right sometimes .

I would have liked to have seen this 7D in the hands of someone who really knows the 7D camera well though and get thier opinion if it is a problem or maybe just settings .




  
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arentol
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Aug 03, 2010 03:19 |  #115

kcbrown wrote in post #10636072 (external link)
This is only true when you're comparing shots of equal focal length. If you compare shots of equal angle of view (which is what most people are concerned with when they're framing a shot) then the amount of motion blur will be about the same for a given shutter speed. That's because camera shake causes angular motion. The amount of camera shake can be considered more or less a constant in angular terms (degrees subtended on average). Smaller angles of view have the effect of magnifying the effects that constant motion, while larger angles of view have the effect of reducing them.

Yup, and this is what I already said. The actual blur is the same if you are at the same effective focal length. HOWEVER, when you are looking at 100% (pixel peeping) you are effectively seeing individual pixels that are 1/4 the size on the 7D as on the 5D2, so the blur is spread across more actual pixels of your image giving the illusion, when pixel peeping, that the issue is greater than it really is. View at print size and the only differences will be those inherent to full frame vs. crop... Or try the same shot with an 8mp crop camera and the 5D2 cropped to the same 8mp image and then the apparently motion blur will be the same (or wait for a 45mp full frame camera and crop to 18mp and compare to 7D).

Also, because the resolution of a sensor plays a part, and because the "rule of thumb" doesn't really account for it, I simplify further when choosing a shutter speed for a crop camera: I'll use twice the shutter speed the rule of thumb normally calls for. So if my focal length is 100mm, I'll use a shutter speed of 1/200th of a second on my 7D. If I were using a 5Dmk2, I'd use a factor of 1.5 to account for its higher resolution.

This is what I was saying as well, that the resolution of the sensor exaggerates the issue when pixel peeping even though it isn't technically any worse. I myself try to use double focal length for this reason. Technically I think you need to triple it, but generally the higher ISO that results has more of a negative impact on the image than the reduced shutter speed will have.


5D3 | Rokinon 14 f/2.8 | 16-35L II | TS-E 24L | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | Voigtlander 40 f/2.0 | Σ 50 f/1.4 | MP-E 65 | 70-200 2.8L IS II | Σ 85 f/1.4 | Zeiss 100 f/2 | Σ 120-300 f/2.8 OS | 580 EX II | 430 EX II | Fuji X10 | OM-D E-M5 | http://www.mikehjphoto​.com/ (external link)
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cassiusmc
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Aug 03, 2010 14:37 as a reply to  @ arentol's post |  #116

I'm thinking about selling my 7d to make that jump to the Markii. :D


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Dj ­ R
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Aug 05, 2010 08:40 |  #117

for those who went from 7D to 5D2.
on the 7D there was the Q button. lovely button.
on the 5D2 I went into the menu and made the SET button go to the Quick Control Screen.

My question is in Manual mode. On the 7D did I customize the Quick Control Dial (on the back, surround the set button) to control aperture? The main dial controls exposure.

On my 5D2 the quick dial doesn't do anything. Maybe I mistakenly changed something. Anyone?


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cptrios
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Aug 05, 2010 08:45 |  #118

Dj R wrote in post #10666215 (external link)
for those who went from 7D to 5D2.
on the 7D there was the Q button. lovely button.
on the 5D2 I went into the menu and made the SET button go to the Quick Control Screen.

My question is in Manual mode. On the 7D did I customize the Quick Control Dial (on the back, surround the set button) to control aperture? The main dial controls exposure.

On my 5D2 the quick dial doesn't do anything. Maybe I mistakenly changed something. Anyone?

You probably don't have the dial turned on. It's not obvious at first, but the ON/OFF switch on your camera has 3 positions. The last turns the camera on with the dial activated! (I personally don't know why they do it this way, but I imagine it has something to do with accidentally bumping the dial.)


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Dj ­ R
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Aug 05, 2010 09:24 |  #119

cptrios wrote in post #10666234 (external link)
You probably don't have the dial turned on. It's not obvious at first, but the ON/OFF switch on your camera has 3 positions. The last turns the camera on with the dial activated! (I personally don't know why they do it this way, but I imagine it has something to do with accidentally bumping the dial.)

you are 100% correct. thank you. very odd.
after reading so many canon manuals, I decided to spare myself the 2 hours and skipped it. but there's always an easter egg or two ;)

thanks again.
cheers.


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