What makes second shooters valuable?

I have two questions, one broad and one specific to me.

First is, what do you think makes second shooters valuable? Is it the value they add to your package, the extra insurance so if you miss the shot your covered, etc. And how do you select them? Referrals, the gear they have, what?

My second question is tailored to my situation? What additional gear would make me more valuable as a second shooter. I have teh gear right now to get the job done, and work with several photographers that have been hiring me several times over wit hthe gear I have now, but I want to plan for the future, and purchase toys while I am financially available (I do have to save up for each item, so I am not planning to buy the L prime trinity right off the bat) I am looking for the best bang for the buck at the moment. I plan to do this full time in the next few years, and while I am preparing for it I want to do plenty of second shooter jobs, but also build my style and gear so I will be ready for solo.

I have the gear in my sig, plus a 15mm fisheye. I was thinking of going a few routes.
85mmf1.8
135mm f2 (thought this would be good to get long second angles)
Flashes and pocket wizards (I dont ever have time it seems to set this up while I am seconding, and I dont think it is really my place, but it is something i want to do when I shoot main. )
A better second body? I am comfortable shooting with only my 5d2 right now, but thinking about upgrading my 40d to a 7d or another 5d2.

I am open to other suggestions as well, thank you all.

extra insurance for possible missed shots. and for added value. clients like to see two photographers. it makes them feel better i guess.

and stop considering yourself a second shooter... but rather, the other photographer. I think your 40d is just fine as a backup. If you'd like, i'll send you a 50d or a 7d for your 5dII if you think there is too much a gap in the quality of your bodies.

i'd definitely get one of those good primes though.

For me, I recognize that I can't be everywhere. So, when booked, a second photographer fills in where I can't be. Like, I'm with the bride, second is with the groom. I'm covering the ceremony, second is getting reactions, parents, bridal party. Second does lots of side stuff outside while I'm doing the main. Second does mostly photojournalism throughout the day. The second I use almost exclusively is a woman I trust totally and never have to concern myself that she isn't going to give me beautiful stuff. That's important to me. If I have to constantly worry or keep my eye out to make sure they are doing what I want, it takes away from my ability to concentrate.
As far as gear, my second needs the same full range of lenses, flashes and backups that I have. That includes a medium range, wide angle, long zoom all fast enough to produce great DOF.

Let me start by saying that I typically don't work with a second shooter; it's an option that I offer at an additional cost and my clients generally are not takers.

That said, a little insurance for missed shots is always nice, but I don't think that's a matter of high concern for me. It's really about being in different places at different times. That's obviously the groom's dressing location while I'm shooting at the bride's. Less obviously are other critical moments. It's hard to get the bride getting into the limo at her home and then get to the church with gear out in time to get some of her getting out of the limo all at a time when I'd like to get a couple of shots of the grooom and BM before the ceremony starts. So its really that ability to be in two places at the same time for more thorough coverage of the day.

To take it a step further, though, it's really about those angles that I'd love the freedom to shoot from a creative perspective, but I can't because I need to get the have-to shots. Check out the second post on this page: https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=894​641&page=5. I'd love to get a shot like that but can't because I'm busy getting the have-to shot in front of the couple. The challenge would become finding second shooters with both the creative eye and technical skill to get stuff like this.

I don't think gear is a huge issue. You need good basic lenses to do the fundamental job and you need something in the 150-200 range plus an UWA plus a fisheye for more interesting/fun shots.

I don't ever tell the couple I'll have a second shooter -- so I don't have them for added value. I'll have them along for more important weddings that I want to make sure everything gets covered. I usually have a friend who's another full-time photographer come along with me. I don't take people who aren't full time because I want someone who I can trust if we need to split.

For example, my last wedding I shot the time was shortened -- so I told my second (Dylan Mayer -- awesome photographer/great friend) to go and get the guys while I shot something else. I didn't have to worry about the images because he's a legit, full-time pro who can easily get images comparable to mine. That's the value of a second shooter for me

Bobby

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That would be great...

I would like a second shooter along who I could depend on to get comparable images and who could compliment me during times when I want a second pair of eyes from a different perspective, e.g. ceremony processional. I would also like them to be able to cover the guys while I cover the girls, or vice versa.

I would also/instead have value for an assistant who could set up my lighting quickly and effectively, rather than me having to do that every time.

If you're looking to pick up some new gear you can't go wrong with investing in off camera flash. I recommend heavier artillery like alien bee's- good at a wedding, and once you start full time you'll like it for outdoor engagement sessions as well. And the more time you have to practice with it before you're full time the better, there is definitely more of a learning curve to that than there is to a new lens.

Having someone there for different angles is always a bonus, but even more importantly I want a different style. 50 photographers can photograph the same subject from the exact same spot and get 50 different pictures.

form wrote in post #10522014
I would also/instead have value for an assistant who could set up my lighting quickly and effectively, rather than me having to do that every time.

This is where I'm at and why my price includes an assistant but a second shooter is an option at an additional cost. I'm generalizing and over-simplifying, but a second shooter will help me increase the quantity of images I present to my clients. An assistant helps me present them with fewer but higher quality images owing to help with lighting, etc.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #10521472
I have two questions, one broad and one specific to me.

First is, what do you think makes second shooters valuable? Is it the value they add to your package, the extra insurance so if you miss the shot your covered, etc. And how do you select them? Referrals, the gear they have, what?

I think all of the above, but probably more so to get different angles, be somewhere where the primary can't, like the groom's getting ready location, etc. I think that adds value.

I have a few photographers that I've shot with in the past both professionally and just for leisure that I would trust for the job. I also second shoot for these photographers if needed so the door swings both ways.

Red Tie Photography wrote in post #10521472
what do you think makes second shooters valuable?

If you need to ask then you probably don't need one.

None that I can see. You have better crap than I do.

Once you're established and can be relied on, it's not all about the gear. While my kit is ok on its own, I borrow from the main shooters all the time... like an 85/L which I'll never own.

My "second shooter" is actually the other shooter (and my wife) and we NEVER think in terms of primary and secondary. We have distinct, but separate responsibilities during the course of the day. She always is with the bride's party during prep and I am with the groom's party (the women are much more open to another woman in the dressing area). We shoot the ceremony from different angles and different focal lenghts to ensure full and complete coverage. After the ceremony, she moves on the reception site to shoot details and guests before they start feeding while I handle the formal wedding party portraits. She will come back to assist with the bridal portraits - she already has established a rapport with the bride. Upon arrival and introduction of the wedding party at the reception we continue to work the room from different perspectives (i.e. I shoot the bride throwing the bouquet and she shoots the women catching the bouquet).

rincon wrote in post #10523420
My "second shooter" is actually the other shooter (and my wife) and we NEVER think in terms of primary and secondary. We have distinct, but separate responsibilities during the course of the day.

Same as how me and Nick shoot, he shoots the girls whilst I shoot the boys prep.

He shoots from the back of the church whilst I shoot the front.
He shoots the guests/singer/organist etc. whilst I shoot the signing of the register.
We both shoot the confetti, usually one wide one tight.
We shoot the couple shots together, different angles, or holding lights or diffusers etc for each other.
We shoot the group shots together, I move people around quickly whilst he shoots them.
One of us grabs room details shots whilst the other shoots guest candids.
We take it in turns to shoot the speeches whilst the other finishes the slideshow and the honeymoon album.
We shoot the first dance together, generally one of us wide one tight.

ability to capture moments that would not be otherwise possible by the first
a 2nd shooter is valuable if he/she shoots in a style that compliments the first

I value an assistant more, but I like having a second shooter for additional angles and being in more than one place at a time.

I find that one person acting as both an assistant and second is the best value .. but finding someone with both a strong back & a good eye ain't easy.