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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 02 Aug 2010 (Monday) 23:37
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Dry time before judging prints?

 
ncjohn
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Aug 02, 2010 23:37 |  #1

Hello folks.
I've read a lot of digital photography books lately, and they've all said that you should let inkjet prints dry about 24 hours before judging the colors and density. But I just bought a book that says modern papers and inks dry so fast that they only need a few minutes. Of course, the newest of these books was a few years old!

I use a Canon printer, but couldn't find anything on their web site about this, and I found a thread here that talks about drying time before mounting or framing, but nothing about the time required before judging a print. So what's the rule of thumb these days, if there is one?

Thanks




  
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Lowner
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Aug 03, 2010 05:36 |  #2

24 hours is the "play safe" period. However, for less important tasks, 30 minutes is plenty.

Pigment inks dry slower than dye inks and very soft heavily textured matte papers absorb ink like a sponge so need a lot of drying, unlike thinner hard gloss papers.

Drying a print before framing is important because if the paper is not dry, it can create a hazy film on the inside of the glass. I always leave any framing at least a few days after printing. Prints can be stored stacked, with clean plain paper between each print. If the prints are dry, the plain paper should be as new, no crinkling should be visible.


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agedbriar
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Aug 03, 2010 15:38 |  #3

Even current production paper will take quite a lot of time to dry if it is of the "swellable polymer" kind, rather than the fast drying "microporous/nanoporou​s".

The HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, that I use, takes two days to settle with regard to color rendition and two more to withstand a pressing trimmer. To mount under glass, the manufacturer recommends a 7 days drying period.




  
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ChasP505
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Aug 03, 2010 15:58 |  #4

agedbriar wrote in post #10655457 (external link)
The HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, that I use, takes two days to settle with regard to color rendition and two more to withstand a pressing trimmer. To mount under glass, the manufacturer recommends a 7 days drying period.

Yep... I leave my HP PPPP prints spread out on my drying (aka dining) table for a week.


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agedbriar
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Aug 03, 2010 16:05 |  #5

ChasP505 wrote in post #10655597 (external link)
Yep... I leave my HP PPPP prints spread out on my drying (aka dining) table for a week.

But we are rewarded by great deep blacks...




  
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ncjohn
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Aug 03, 2010 16:23 |  #6

ChasP505 wrote in post #10655597 (external link)
Yep... I leave my HP PPPP prints spread out on my drying (aka dining) table for a week.

A WEEK!!! I'd forget what I was doing.:p




  
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ncjohn
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Aug 03, 2010 16:23 |  #7

agedbriar wrote in post #10655457 (external link)
Even current production paper will take quite a lot of time to dry if it is of the "swellable polymer" kind, rather than the fast drying "microporous/nanoporou​s".

How do you find out which it is? I have one pack of kodak paper that says, "nano-particulate"; that's a hint! But the other one doesn't say anything, and I haven't used it yet, so I don't what to expect from it.




  
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agedbriar
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Aug 03, 2010 17:14 |  #8

If you already have that paper, just try it out and test how it reacts to touch with time. For framing, I would adopt Richard's plain paper method as suggested above (not while the photo feels still tacky, of course).

More of a problem when you have to choose between unknown, unspecified papers.




  
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ncjohn
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Aug 03, 2010 18:25 |  #9

agedbriar wrote in post #10656026 (external link)
If you already have that paper, just try it out and test how it reacts to touch with time. For framing, I would adopt Richard's plain paper method as suggested above (not while the photo feels still tacky, of course).

Actually, I'm more concerned with how long you have to wait to judge color than how long before you can mat/frame it. I'm still in the initial stages of learning color management/calibration​/printing/all-that-stuff, and comparing prints made with different applications and on different papers is part of that process. So of course I don't want to try and judge prints before they're ready.




  
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agedbriar
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Aug 04, 2010 01:33 |  #10

It varies with papers. With a new paper, I follow the first picture's progress to get the feel for that.

I've had no paper that would allow picture judgement straight out of printer. With use, I learn to extrapolate from the immediate appearance, though, so that gross mistakes can be spotted right away. Not to the point of determining the amount of correction (at that time), but so far as to know that a reprint is pending.




  
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Electric ­ Shepherd
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Aug 04, 2010 01:47 |  #11

agedbriar wrote in post #10655457 (external link)
Even current production paper will take quite a lot of time to dry if it is of the "swellable polymer" kind, rather than the fast drying "microporous/nanoporou​s".

The HP Premium Plus Photo Paper, that I use, takes two days to settle with regard to color rendition and two more to withstand a pressing trimmer. To mount under glass, the manufacturer recommends a 7 days drying period.

Thanks for that, I've normally just left them overnight before mounting any prints, looks like I'll leave them a lot longer in future.


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ncjohn
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Aug 04, 2010 09:12 |  #12

Okay, thanks guys.




  
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Lowner
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Aug 04, 2010 09:17 |  #13

I've read that the ColorMunki, when in printer calibration mode requires the user to use the printed sample sheets immediately. Can any users confirm this or is it just hearsay?


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ChasP505
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Aug 04, 2010 10:09 |  #14

Lowner wrote in post #10660007 (external link)
I've read that the ColorMunki, when in printer calibration mode requires the user to use the printed sample sheets immediately. Can any users confirm this or is it just hearsay?

Hmmm... When I had custom profiles made by Eric Chan, I was instructed to allow the prints to dry. Just mailing them off ensured that they had 2-3 days drying time.


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Hen3Ry
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Aug 04, 2010 10:49 as a reply to  @ ChasP505's post |  #15

From Inkjet Art

In recent weeks there has been considerable discussion about out-gassing "fog" appearing on the backside of the glass in framed Epson Premium Luster prints, printed with the new Epson UltraChrome inks. It has been suggested by some that this situation could equal Epson's problems in the summer of 2000 that were experienced with the dreaded "orange shift" fading with the Epson 1270 inks on the Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper -- where Epson initiated a printer and media buy-back program to save face (before reformulating the paper that fall with anti-oxidants to slow down ozone oxidation of the cyan dye).

Before I go any further, let me assure everyone that the "out-gassing fog" coming from Epson's Premium Luster and UltraChrome ink is NOT an Epson-specific problem, nor is it an Epson UltraChrome ink problem. It is a PAPER-SPECIFIC PROBLEM. This is a problem that is specific to a type of paper, mainly "RC" or barrier type photo inkjet papers. The problem is not specific to Epson brand "RC" papers --there are many other brands that share these specifications. The problem is not even limited to our industry.

The out-gassing fog comes from the glycol, a wetting agent that is used in all inkjet inks. "RC" photo inkjet papers have a barrier layer (usually polyethylene) between the inkjet receptive coating and the paper base. This barrier prevents heavy ink loads from wicking into the paper (lowering image resolution, contrast and color saturation) and from moisture that causes paper "cockling" (deforming wrinkles). However, this same barrier can prevent the ink from drying quickly. Although the paper may appear to be dry (and is dry to the touch, especially "fast-drying" micro-porous papers like Epson's "Premium" line), there is still plenty of water and glycol under that super-absorbent coating, lying against the barrier layer.

It is this water and glycol, trapped against the barrier layer, that may eventually out-gas (evaporate) and condensate (fog) on the inside of the glass, if a print is framed before it has had a chance to sufficiently dry. Some have noticed that the fog on the glass is "oily" to the touch. This is from the glycol.

People in the inkjet signage industry have long ago noticed that they must let their RC type photo papers dry for several days before they can thermal laminate these papers -- otherwise the trapped water and glycol will immediately turn to steam and create bubbles between the laminate and the paper. Some RC papers never dry quick enough (who can wait two weeks?) to laminate.

A spokesman from a third-party inkjet ink company recently told me that it was once necessary for them to change their glycol ratio in the inks used in HP printers, otherwise their inks never did seem to dry a host of media types.

Epson's new pigmented UltraChrome inks (and any of their other inksets) have no glycol drying issues on matte and fine art papers. There are also no drying problems (that we know of) with their cast coated glossy photo papers, i.e. the Epson Photo Paper (now called "Glossy Photo Paper") and their Glossy Paper Photo Weight (also called "Professional Glossy Paper" in the sheet size).

Accelerated drying procedures may be needed when framing Epson "Premium" papers (and all other RC type papers) behind glass to avoid out-gassing fog on the glass. Epson and other companies suggest waiting at least two weeks before framing barrier type photo inkjet papers behind glass. Epson's Greg McCoy has another suggestion for those needing a quicker solution:

"The process needs to be accelerated, and by 'curing' the print with a plain piece of paper in contact with the print for 24 hours.

"After 24 hrs, you will notice the plain sheet of paper is wavy.

"On a print with heavy ink duty, I recommend changing the paper after 24 hrs and a new sheet and let it sit another 24 hrs.

"This is necessary for any print on a barrier paper that will be framed under glass or placed in a plastic sleeve."

I hope Greg's suggestions will help. Although this procedure is somewhat of a production 'pain', it does offer a solution to those who can't wait a couple of weeks to frame their prints. Undoubtedly, some industrious person will invent a heater/dryer unit for the inkjet industry similar to what they've done in the litho printing industry to solve their out-gassing problem on prints that have to be quickly framed for the art shows.


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Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là.

  
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Dry time before judging prints?
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